Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw this snake at a local pet store that was labled as "aneri" corn. I asked what type of "aneri" it was and the owner didnt know. Since it had no yellow at all and was almost 4 ft long I was thinking type B. The more I looked at it the more "rat snakish" it looked, the head was bigger than what I thought corn heads should be, the spear pattern on the head was broken at the point and the neck pattern that connects to the spear was divided into to short stripes. Also the iris's are brown (previous post said orange but looks more brown to me now).
Link

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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

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Link

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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

Neither. It's a Southwestern ratsnake, Pantherophis (Elaphe) guttatus meahllmorum...

That's my opinion anyway.

PS: Doesn't look anery anything either, just the common garden variety as far as I can tell.

TC

This snake is also over 4 ft long, closer to 50 inches, I didn't think Great Plains or Westerns got his long ( 36 inches mostly ) I do agree with the head shape and eyes looking like Emori. Funny thing is that people here say mostly Emori and people on cornsnake forum say "corn" ( Kathy Love, Tim Spunkler). So I guess it's still up in the air. The only other thing is that living in eastern Virginia it would seem a little strange for an Emori or Southwestern rat snake to make its way to a pet shop here when I have to really search for one for sale on the internet.
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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

I have a 5' S.P. and a few over 4'. They do get larger.
Todd hughes

I agree with Terry, it's a meahllmorum. Other than the head shape and markings, it has large dorsal blotches that have a faint lighter area crossing through them. This is a common trait in southwestern rats.

-Toby

This snake is also over 4 ft long, closer to 50 inches, I didn't think Great Plains or Westerns got his long ( 36 inches mostly ) I do agree with the head shape and eyes looking like Emori. Funny thing is that people here say mostly Emori and people on cornsnake forum say "corn" ( Kathy Love, Tim Spunkler). So I guess it's still up in the air. The only other thing is that living in eastern Virginia it would seem a little strange for an Emori or Southwestern rat snake to make its way to a pet shop here when I have to really search for one for sale on the internet.
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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

As far as size, southwestern rats (meahllmorum) do get large. I have three over 4 ft long, two are close to or at 5 ft. These are Nueces County TX locality meahllmorum. The broken spearpoint doesn't really mean anything, you see that in corns also, and meahllmorum can have complete ones. What I am looking at is the shape and size of the blotches and the faint transverse bars across the middle of the blotches.

Good point about the location, but anything is possible with the internet. I have sold some of my cb babies online and they are in various places now.

I am not an expert, so I guess it is possible that it could be an anery corn, but I just don't think so...

This is my big female southwestern rat, over 4 ft long. -Toby

I am starting to agree with you..thanks for the reply. The blushing in the saddles looks exactly like yours. Also what are other things to look for when comparing to corns. I know that the belly checkering is a lot bolder in corns and I have attached a pic that shows more faded black checkering with less checkering in general as well:

http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/wisema2297/my snakes/?action=view¤t=000_0116.jpg

Also mine has 2 faint stripes running dorsally between the saddles. This can be seen in corns, but typically is seen mostly in wild caught specimens. I believe this supports your assertion as well:

http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/wisema2297/my snakes/?action=view¤t=000_0125.jpg

Do any of yours have a soft pastel type pinkish or peach coloring to any of the lateral scales in the first 3-4 rows above the belly?:

http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/wisema2297/my snakes/?action=view¤t=000_0121.jpg

http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/wisema2297/my snakes/?action=view¤t=000_0120.jpg

And last is the head shot. This is a larger head than what my corns have or other corns that I have seen, the eyes seem bigger as well:

http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/wisema2297/my snakes/?action=view¤t=000_0122.jpg

thanks for taking the time to look. I just to make sure that I know exactly what I've got.
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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

sorry, I sent a link that let you see all my snake pics..LOL The first 3 rows are of the snake in question..take care.
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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

Very good and detailed photos! Now I am convinced it is meahllmorum. A very typical looking specimen.

Yes, some of mine do have some peach and light orange coloring in the lower lateral area. The faded checks on the ventral are also very typical of meahllmorum. Some specimens have bolder and darker checks like my big female in the picture, but most are faded like yours. It also looks like a very dark animal in some of the photos as someone else pointed out, but this happens in meahllmorum also. A few of my cb offspring from that female are much darker than her and their father. The head shape and eye size are also very typical. The faint dorsal striping is common in this subspecies as well as guttatus.

The second pic is a photo of my old male. He has faint dorsal stripes also. I last measured him in 2003 and he was at 56 inches then. I don't know if he has grown any since then. I think he is a very old animal, but still an active breeder. He weighs in at around 980 grams. I have a younger, but longer male that I got last year, but no photos of him yet. I estimate him at 5 ft or a little more. The first pic is an '05 baby from the female in the previous post and this male.

-Toby

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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 southwestern rat
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

tried to send you email but it didnt work, was asking about avaiability but thread was pulled...sorry
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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 southwestern rat
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

The faint pink is really outstanding in the juvies and is, IMHO, a sign of S.P.
Todd Hughes

Toby, where are you located? Did you get yours from J. Lassiter? He is the only one I know selling them down here, but there may be others. Mine are all w.c. from Nueces and San Patricio and Jim Wells county.
Todd Hughes

Todd,

All of my adults were WC in Nueces County. Some are from the Southeast side of Corpus (Airline / Cimmaron area) and some from Calallen (NW Corpus) Also one from FM 624 near the Nueces / Jim Wells county line. Never met J. Lassiter, but have heard a lot about him.

-Toby

Just figured you might have got them from him. We know a few people from Pampered Pets here in Corpus but not too many herpers. Are you a member of Bay Area Herpetological Association? Meet the 2nd Tuesday at the Museum. Let's hook up for a road cruise, now is the time for all things on 624!
Todd Hughes

Todd, forgot to say, I live in the Calallen area of Corpus.

-Toby

Todd, Jimmy at Pampered Pets also breeds Nueces county meahllmorum every year. -Toby

I will have some Nueces county, Texas locality this year. They are the most common snake encountered on my chunk of the planet. Can't go wrong with Terry's evaluation, he is 100% correct.
Todd Hughes

It's definantly not guttata. To that there is no question. Whether emoryi or meahllmorum I don't know....not sure how you could tell that without locality data on the animal. Ratsnakehaven...what are you looking at to arrive at that ID?

Horridus@aol.com

This snake is also over 4 ft long, closer to 50 inches, I didn't think Great Plains or Westerns got his long ( 36 inches mostly ) I do agree with the head shape and eyes looking like Emori. Funny thing is that people here say mostly Emori and people on cornsnake forum say "corn" ( Kathy Love, Tim Spunkler). So I guess it's still up in the air. The only other thing is that living in eastern Virginia it would seem a little strange for an Emori or Southwestern rat snake to make its way to a pet shop here when I have to really search for one for sale on the internet.
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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

Here's a comparison of your ratsnake and one of my meahllmorum, side by side...


Yours is darker, but that is understandable because mine are from Brazos Island, further south than any others is the U.S. They are often lighter colored and have a little different blotch shape.

Here's what I think. Yours has large blotches, as pointed out by Toby, and also the blotches are partially split, which is very common for meahllmorum and intergrades along the Gulf Coast of Texas. Also, these meahllmorum can reach a very large size as can the Texas corns north of them, Pantherophis (Elaphe) guttatus slowinskii. Slowinskii would be the only thing I might confuse it with.

To answer Horridus, emoryi is a somewhat smaller snake and it's blotches are narrower on ave. and they have a much larger number of dorsal blotches. I bet if the poster counted dorsal blotches she would come up with 35 to 40. Emoryi often has 50 to 60. Emoryi also has a somewhat different coloration. The coloration of this snake is quite typical of the coastal form, probably from somewhere bt. Galveston and Corpus Christi. Toby should know, he's seen dozens of these.

PS: Not to put anyone down or anything, but I think the folks on cornsnake forum don't see very many meahllmorum. They may not recognize it as even a possibility.

As far as getting to eastern VA, I think it's very possible. There's lots of these snakes around and they are not much in demand, so the value is low. They could get passed around a lot w/o folks paying very much attention to details like locality. I've seen it happen many times (folks not knowing where they came from).

Another possibility is that it could be a cross bt. a corn and a meahllmorum. This snake is a cross bt. a Brazos Island ratsnake and a hypo corn...

Notice the split blotches, but the blotches aren't as large, so who knows...

TC

>>This snake is also over 4 ft long, closer to 50 inches, I didn't think Great Plains or Westerns got his long ( 36 inches mostly ) I do agree with the head shape and eyes looking like Emori. Funny thing is that people here say mostly Emori and people on cornsnake forum say "corn" ( Kathy Love, Tim Spunkler). So I guess it's still up in the air. The only other thing is that living in eastern Virginia it would seem a little strange for an Emori or Southwestern rat snake to make its way to a pet shop here when I have to really search for one for sale on the internet.
>>-----
>>1.0 het albino ball
>>1.0 norm ball
>>0.2 norm ball
>>0.1 snow corn
>>1.0 butter corn
>>1.0 norm corn
>>1.0 striped Cali king
>>1.0 western hog
>>
>>Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

I agree with you now..thanks. ALso the pic is darker than real life.
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1.0 het albino ball
1.0 norm ball
0.2 norm ball
0.1 snow corn
1.0 butter corn
1.0 norm corn
1.0 southwestern rat
1.0 striped Cali king
1.0 western hog

Visual Morphs?....I love the normal looks. You can't improve on nature, you can only produce "interesting deviations".

Here's what I think:
Anery corn

I know, I know,
and I really think there's emoryi blood mixed in, however, I'd still say mostly corn.
I'm looking at the saddles. They are very dark and solid.
The head looks emoryi, especially the eyes, but the color is just too dark.
Emoryi tend to have more color somewhere mixed in the saddles
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...and I think to myself, "What a wonderful world."

>>The head looks emoryi, especially the eyes, but the color is just too dark.
>>Emoryi tend to have more color somewhere mixed in the saddles

Emoryi is variable, as is meahllmorum from south TX. This is a very dark female from Texas...

TC

I looked again.
I dunno what I was thinking-that thing's pure emoryi
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...and I think to myself, "What a wonderful world."