Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We live in a very dry part of the country and as such we have a very hard time keeping the humidity around 60 for our BPs. If we spray down a cage the humidity will stay up for only a few hours and then drops back into the 30s.

Whenever one of our BPs is about to go into a shed cycle, we add some damp moss into one their hides in order to keep the humidity up so we don't get an incomplete shed. We've never had a bad shed and our 4BPs are in perfect health.

So my question is, besides during a shed cycle, how important is humidity? Should we be worried that for most of the time our snakes are living in dry conditions? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

perfect. BPs needing high humidity is another dangerous myth that leads to all kinds of health problems. Humid hide at shedding is all that is needed. You're conditions are ideal. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

since i have let my humidity drop like my vet said 40%, use a humid hide for shedding.... i have not had any problems, my bps even seem to be eating better...

Research indicates that the burrows that balls inhabit usually maintain humidity levels between 80-100% and during very dry seasons balls have been known to migrate to wetter territory. Medically balls do need adequate humidity to aid in their basic metabolic functions - in this instance humidity is as important as heat. Lack of humidity will dehydrate and hamper your balls metabolic function.

Will it kill you ball to have low humidity? - No.

Do you absolutely have to have it at 60%? - No

If you can get it at around 50% or better you are good. Around 30-40% is not going to kill your snake but provide a humid hide for them to retreat (not just during shed cycles).

Maybe your set up just needs a little tweaking.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

I respectfully disagree with you on this point. Can you cite one specific example of a ball that suffered any health problem what so ever as a definite result of LOW humidity? Just one? I have kept balls for well over 10 years, followed the forums for just as long, and have NEVER, not once, heard of a ball with a health problem as a result of lw humidity (other than bad sheds). Now, the flip side is that overly humidified conditions cause all sorts of problems...scale rot, mouth rot, other dermatitis type conditions, respiratory conditions, etc.

In my opinion, too many people rationalize certain conditions by "matching" the wild condition. In other words, since balls have higher humidity in their burrows in the wild, we should try and duplicate that as well in our captive snakes. Well, in the wild virtually all BPs have high loads of internal and external parsites. Should we try to duplicate that in captive snakes? I haven't seen anyone selling ticks...where can I get some to make my snakes more "natural"? Obviously that's tongue in cheek, but I think you get my point. The same goes for feeding. Many responsible herpers feed frozen/thawed, which is obviously not what the snakes get in the wild.

Herpers, particulary the inexperienced, get into trouble trying to match the conditions the animals get in the wild. My snakes get room humidity year round. It has been as low as 30% or lower during the dryest part of the winter. My snakes breed well (seems better than most, to tell the truth...I've never had a snake "slug out", become egg-bound, etc.), feed well, and do very well. My vet and I have a collegial relationship. I've shared things with her, but she has never had to treat any of my animals for any illness (and we're talking hundreds ove balls over the years).

Yes, I spritz a little when introducing males and females. Yes, I spritz a little around shedding. Otherwise, ball pythons simple do not require, and in fact seem to thrive even better without, high humidity.

Ask the "big boys (and gals)" how many of them do anything at all to increase humidity on a regular basis...you'll see my thinking is very much in line with their experiences as well.

In general, too much moisture is worse than too little. I keep my chondros and BPs with enough humidity for a good shed.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I will also agree to disagree – LOL – cause I am not really up for an argument this morning.

Back in the early to mid 90s there was a study done that compared how environmental extremes impacted cold blooded vs. warm-blooded animals. Yes BPs were included in that study as well as some of the big-bodied snakes and several lizard and tortoise species.

Long story short the study showed that extremes in heat and humidity (as well as other environment factors) will tax a reptiles cardiovascular, respiratory, digestive systems. Yeah – your snakes might not be bleeding at the eyes or flopping over dead – but the low humidity is taxing their systems more than it needs to. I guess you can compare it with smoking or obesity in humans – you can get by fine for a long time – but is it really the healthiest choice for your body?

To be honest up until my vet showed me the study I had never even measured or thought twice about my humidity. But I live in a place were relative humidity hovers around 50-60% anyway so it wasn’t really an issue for my snakes.

Also I want to point out that 60% or even 80% humidity is by no means a wet cage or dangerous environment. Also – appropriate relative humidity has very little or nothing to do with the problems that you describe – those problems generally occur due to several other poor husbandry issues – to blame it solely on humidity is misleading.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

High humidity in itself is NOT the problem....its what people do to acheive the higher humidity. Most people simly drench the substrate and never let it dry properly.

As far as the study you mentioned, I guess my stance is that 30% to 40% relative humidty is NOT AT ALL an "extreme" for a BP. 15%, maybe.

The common misconception comes from the fact that we soft-skinned, rapid breathing, high metabolism critters lose lots of moisture in our breath and through our skin. Very low humidity really can bother us. For a snake, with more or less waterproof skin, and much slower respiration rate and metabolism, water loss associated with low humidity would be negligible. I would be willing to bet anything that you could measure hydration in a collection of BPs that are maintained at 35% RH, and in a collection maintained at 60% RH, and if all othet things are equal, there will be no measureable difference.

do you by chance have a link for this study??

the term extremes is deceiving, and I also don't believe 30-40% is extreme.

it would be interesting to read how they conducted this study and interpreted their results.

TomChambers

don't know if it would be on the internet? It was in a trade journal my vet showed me many many years ago. Will send him an email and see if he can direct me to it. If I can find it I will most certainly pass it on.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

In a post that I've made at the top of this page, I ask about using Eco Earth or similar ground coconut substrates for balls. At the advice of folks in the kingsnake forum, I've put about six inches of this stuff in my California Kingsnake's cage, and he loves it. He burrows in this substrate often, and I'm always finding new openings heading in new directions through this stuff.

You've mentioned anthills and burrows a couple of times recently, and I'm wondering whether I should provide my ball python with the same kind of option. The Eco Earth holds humidity beautifully, and she could burrow into it to refresh herself whenever she felt the need. Do you know of anything good or anything bad coming of people's attempts to do this?

Thanks,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.