Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey friends,

wanted to share with you guys that my first sighting of a DHL occured earlier today. We were hunting around Bell Mountain; a place that is scheduled to be bulldozed soon, and were fortunate to walk too close for this little guys comfort. Out he ran, and here he is in hand. Its a little male, probably last year's brood.

I am keeping him in a 66qt Rubbermaid container filled with three inches of play sand, a few branches of Creosote for color, smell, and cover, a 100watt basking light, and a Zoo-med long tube UVB bulb, and a couple of rocks from where I found him. What excites me is that he took a waxworm already. *big thumbs up* Here are some pics.

so any thoughts? I haven't been able to check the temperature gradients in there, but will probably do that tomorrow. Any insights will only help hone my own skills as a keeper and improve his life with me. So thanks in advance.

regards,
-Phil

looks like the pics didn't work.....here's try number two.

sorry posted the wrong codes.....

-Phil

I'm interested in speaking with current HL stewards. I'm strongly considering getting one, but wish to assess my realistic chances of keeping it healthy.

Experienced herper of decades, only have one 2003 California Kingsnake now that has been properly cared for since a hatchling. I know proper care of reptiles and take the time to research. (I read your Terms.)

Returned from SE Oregon where I herped for days hoping to find a Horned Lizard. Both Short-horned and Desert occur in locations of extreme SE area, especially Alvord Desert. Was majorly disappointed that we found none; we herped many prime areas.

More interested in Short-horned, but also intrigued by Deserts. Have a 60-gallon vivarium that is a replica of a desert, with gravel and hiding spots. Yes, I know that they eat ants.

Have you had good luck with yours? With proper temperature, setup & diet, can they do well in captivity? Are they Human-friendly, like a Uromastyx, or do they prefer mostly to be left alone? Please share your insight.

Nice lizard. I hope thats not part of Lesters study area.

Phil, Congrats!! Nice Find! He is a very nice looking lizard.
I was out near Indio on saturday with my friend Jeff, and while walking back to the car after a short hike, he spotted a yearling DHL. A nice find conidering the temps were high 60's maybe low 70's.

I love the variation in color from place to place.
Enjoy!!
Ryan

Hey Ryan

arrrgh! You beat me by a day! Lol. That is a screamer little guy to be sure. Were the rocks around there reddish and white like he is? Man, he is quite something to behold. My little guy took down 10 rugosus today, so he may prove to be a good captive.

Dr. Snelling,

I don't believe he is part of Lester's study area. Then again I don't know if Lester is studying DHLs. and like I said on FHF, Bell Mountain is going to become a habitat for humans soon.....So any studies in that area would be seriously undermined.....imo. If you hear something about it, please let me know by personal message. I appreciate your concern.

regards,
-Phil

No worries I wasn't trying to dog you or anything I will indeed keep my ears open, after all we all care about what happens to the little guys. There is so much development out here in this area is seems cancerous

Ryan
Whether the area is "protected" or not it is considered very bad form to collect or "poach" (whether is DHLs, Indigo snakes or insects)in a study site. If you know an area is a researchers study site and you have any class at all you do not mess with the potential study animals. Consider if animals are removed un naturally from the area how the data retreived will become artifically skewed, in many cases then this data becomes unusable to future researchers and no longer good for managemnt plans population studies etc. Based on your comments I would certainly not show you any potentially sensitive areas.

Dr. Snelling--If someone was to enter a "known" study site, then I think that is in bad taste. Certianly I don't believe any of these people would intentionally look for such a site, given the millions of acres of land available to "legally collect" by permit which is what is taking place if I understand this correctly. Rightly stated the building and destruction of habitiat is probably affecting horned lizard population more than any other factor, and being that California is very strict with it's laws and oversight.

Dr. Snelling would you be able to ascertian a study sight yourself? I once had Lester mention to me an area he had been looking at in Palmdale if my memory serves me right, and this was an area that I also had collected in as well as out in Riverside which I believe Lester had studied out there as well. If I had been in Lesters area of study I would not intentionally go there, but I had no idea of where his sites are, and/or how to know for sure unless they are somehow posted.... Such as Flat-tail Horned Lizard areas that are posted. While there is a lot of misinformation about horned lizards, most of the people I see on this site are not "poaching" and have some education about the laws and are interested in conservation. This is not wholesale commercial collection for the purpose of greed with indiscriminate collection with no care about numbers or the law. As far as I know none of these animals are illegal, unless there has been a change in the law. So I am not sure what moved you in the direction of being critical with the posts.....
Dr. Snelling it seems that the responses and comments given you were not insenstive, maybe I am not reading into the response what you see, but I believe that both of these guys would not "skew" a known study site. While I believe what you said to be factual and true, I also think you may have misread the intent of thier comments.......by the way none of us would show anyone but a researcher our sensitive sites...isn't that correct?
I certianly respect you and have used you great knowlege in your field of study and appreciate our relationship....
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Reptoman
Many thanks for the well thought out reply. This cut and paste (From Ryans post) is the remark which I find to be the problem and is the only remark which made be esp critical.

""What does it matter if it's part of anyones study area?""

My only other concern was for Lesters site or sites at least one of which is in that general area, and I know he has made comment here before about animals possibly being removed from the area of his studys. My thinking would be that since I know of study areas in the vicinity I would not collect from those areas on the off chance I would impact it negatively. I would save my collecting for areas I which I felt certain were outside the area.

The way it is worded says to me that the person making it does not care whether he is intereferring with a study area or not, perhaps I am misinterpetting his intent and if so I apologise it is certainly one of the dangers of using the internet as a means of communication.
I totally agree such sites are not usually posted so there is no way of knowing if you are interefering or not, and quite frankly I would not post a site either as it could very easily pave the way for deliberate vandalism. I wholeheartedly agree that habitat destruction and rampant building are the number one cause for the decline of these and so many other desert plants and animals, and I personally have no issue at all with removing anything from any area about to be destroyed in such a manner.
Anyway I do think we are all pretty much on the same page. I hope this cleared up where I was coming from on this. I look forward to more positive interaction in the future and am glad to have my brain picked when ever you need to do so. By the way
it's Gordon, no need for the "Dr." as it does not apply in my case.

I'm sorry Gordon,

I referred to you as Dr. Snelling because I read some ant papers by a Dr. Snelling. I assumed you were one in the same. heh. I hope you can rest assured that Ryan or myself wouldn't knowingly go into and poach a study area. I say the word poach, because I believe thats what it would be. I'd take the little fellow back, as hard as that might be for me if I knew he came from a study area. Another thing is that I aspire to work in Environmental science. I would be pretty miffed if I was losing study subjects to collecting. At any rate, please let me know if you hear anything about him coming from anyone's study site. I'll talk to you soon.

kind regards,
-Phil

quote by snelling----
"The way it is worded says to me that the person making it does not care whether he is intereferring with a study area or not, perhaps I am misinterpetting his intent and if so I apologise it is certainly one of the dangers of using the internet as a means of communication. "

I agree that text communication can sometimes misinterpret the actual intended point. My comment was not intended in harsh nature. My apologies for how it sounded. I have a great deal of respect towards animals, habitat, people, life, etc...... My reply was, in a way, in Phil's defense. No hard feelings.

On a side note, I do have a great deal of respect for you, and a small group of people on this particular forum, as we share the same general interest in the preservation of Horned Lizards, and and educating those that are of interest. That is what is important here!!
Again, I apologize for how it sounded. Knowing myself, I would have probably came back with even more agressive words than you did. It just shows the passion we all feel towards this delicate subject.
Respectfully,
-Ryan

Phil,
No worries will certainly keep you posted. I only wish I could be that Dr Snelling as he has forgotten more than I will ever know, I know all to well as he is my father.
Ryan
No problem and I certainly understand. It is so easy to misinterpret things in print that is of course it so critical to be careful how things are worded so misunderstandings do not occur. Anway all is good now.
Looking forward to further "debate" Finally some rain in the high desert, actually raining at my house in Apple Valley maybe now we shall see some critters.

I do see what your concern was, and I do see how that would concern you........I hope the many years ago I did collect a few animals legally from California, I hope I didn't infringe on anyones study site, I certianly would feel bad about that.... I would love to see our site and affiliates get together and perahps under the auspices of a Lester or whomever collect in areas that are going to the bulldozer and some how rescue - Lester has mentioned that this may not be a good idea as finding sites for rescue victims is not easy either, but it does seem to be a shame. In my town off Highway 90 there is still good populations of Texas Horned Lizards in Medina County and they are slowly going by the way side due to encroachment more than any other man made factor. Also we have noticed how destructive roadrunners are to horned lizard populations.......

Again I appreciate all you have done in helping us over the years!! Cheers!!!
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

What does it matter if it's part of anyones study area?
To my knowledge that area is not protected.
-Ryan