Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

letter to Dr. who called DSS PLEASE READ

XtremeXteriors Apr 03, 2006 09:32 AM

I will start this letter with the hopes that it will be able to put you on a level of perspective that you may not be familiar with in certain aspects of other peoples lives and how "Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority" (Daniel Webster). I always imagined a doctor to be a person of respect and caring for other individuals and their quest for knowledge on how to help people THE BEST would never cease to want to end. The actions you CHOSE to take against my family before finding out all the details surrounding the situation goes against everything that I would have imagined a doctor would have been taught in school. I am in no way shape or form a doctor nor would I ever try to give medical advice to a person because that is not my field of expertise,Ball Pythons are though.You made a diagnosis before EVER hearing ALL the fine details of the situation. If a person walks into your facility and says I have a headache, my toe hurts, and im having trouble breathing would you automatically make your diagnosis right then and there and treat it, or would you want to find out as much as you can about the symptoms so you could treat the ailments in the BEST way possible.That was not the case in this particular matter,you heard the word snakes,pythons or reptiles,you knew I have children and your diagnosis was calling the DSS immediatly before finding out, Are these snakes poisonous? (NO),are they large enought to eat a small child? (NO),Will they EVER be large enough to eat a small child? (NO),Do the children have UNSUPERVISED access to the animals? (NO) Has there EVER been a reported case of a ball python killing someone especially a child? (NO) Does my son help with the cleaning duties in the snake room? (NO) Has my daughter ever even seen a live snake,let alone touched one (NO), Are strict sanitary measures being kept to guarantee the HEALTH and SAFETY of ALL the members of the home? (YES).This is the financial future for me and my family.I work full time and im a full time father, during the summer I work 2 full time jobs plus being a father,I am devoted to my family,and by your actions, you chose to feel that because you are a doctor you can make an unbiased decision on a field that you may no nothing about and potentially destroy my hopes of being better and having better for my family because of ignorance and feeling justified in YOUR OWN mind.What I do is not the most common thing you come across in an everyday conversation with someone and when it fell in your lap your first instinct was negativity, instead of keeping an open mind and LEARNING more than what you know about a different situation.I love my children with ALL I have to give and I would NEVER put them in danger,instead YOU did that by making a phonecall and allowing someone that YOU dont even know (to my knowledge) come into my home and tell ME whats best for MY children.My home is clean,I dont do drugs,I work hard,I dont abuse/neglect my children,I am an excellent father I want more for my children than you do, believe me, please dont try to destroy someones life before you learn all the FACTS and then re-evaluate those facts again,and again if theres even a doubt in your mind that you could be wrong. To have the ability to have someones children taken from their parents without proper just cause is cruel to both sides, children and parents.You may do more harm than good and then all your hopes of helping people flies out the window with having a child taken from his LOVING parents arms because YOU didnt feel it was appropriate and you were so knowledgeable in my field (Ball Pythons) already that you didnt have to do some research for yourself so you could feel good at the end of the day and say "I MADE A RESPONSIBLE DECISION" based on THE FACTS not on the stereotypes held by society.Differences in RACE,CULTURES,HOBBIES, FAMILY,BUSINESSES is what sets us aside from the norm and it makes people who they are as individuals and as private society in their own kind,my kind being Ball python breeders and reptile lovers.My son is the smartest child in his class (at least thats what his teacher said) I have exposed him to so many things animals,nature,the airport,the ocean ANYTHING and EVERYTHING,I hunt, so he can recognize animals that NO ONE else in his class would even think to know at his age,and I intend for my daughter to be the same way.My son grew up with the snakes and so will my daughter if DSS doesnt take that right away from me,I dont want my children growing up thinking that they have to conform to EVERY aspect of " basic" society because someone else said they are wrong if they dont. I want them to embrace differences and grow up respecting people,nature and themselves.I want my children to be the best they can be and that sometimes goes against other peoples views and opinions.As long as they ALWAYS keep respect for the individual they will NEVER fail!!!

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-Daniel Webster

Replies (10)

willwoh Apr 03, 2006 09:50 AM

They certainly can't say you're not informed or an intelligent person! I do think everything is going to end up okay, dss usually turns out to be just a pain in the neck. Good luck with everything and keep us informed
Will Wohlers

MarkS Apr 03, 2006 10:41 AM

I like the words and sentiments you've expressed. You may want to try to punch up the grammer and punctuation a bit, dividing it into paragraphs would make it easier to read. Otherwise it's a very good job.

Mark

>>I will start this letter with the hopes that it will be able to put you on a level of perspective that you may not be familiar with in certain aspects of other peoples lives and how "Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority" (Daniel Webster). I always imagined a doctor to be a person of respect and caring for other individuals and their quest for knowledge on how to help people THE BEST would never cease to want to end. The actions you CHOSE to take against my family before finding out all the details surrounding the situation goes against everything that I would have imagined a doctor would have been taught in school. I am in no way shape or form a doctor nor would I ever try to give medical advice to a person because that is not my field of expertise,Ball Pythons are though.You made a diagnosis before EVER hearing ALL the fine details of the situation. If a person walks into your facility and says I have a headache, my toe hurts, and im having trouble breathing would you automatically make your diagnosis right then and there and treat it, or would you want to find out as much as you can about the symptoms so you could treat the ailments in the BEST way possible.That was not the case in this particular matter,you heard the word snakes,pythons or reptiles,you knew I have children and your diagnosis was calling the DSS immediatly before finding out, Are these snakes poisonous? (NO),are they large enought to eat a small child? (NO),Will they EVER be large enough to eat a small child? (NO),Do the children have UNSUPERVISED access to the animals? (NO) Has there EVER been a reported case of a ball python killing someone especially a child? (NO) Does my son help with the cleaning duties in the snake room? (NO) Has my daughter ever even seen a live snake,let alone touched one (NO), Are strict sanitary measures being kept to guarantee the HEALTH and SAFETY of ALL the members of the home? (YES).This is the financial future for me and my family.I work full time and im a full time father, during the summer I work 2 full time jobs plus being a father,I am devoted to my family,and by your actions, you chose to feel that because you are a doctor you can make an unbiased decision on a field that you may no nothing about and potentially destroy my hopes of being better and having better for my family because of ignorance and feeling justified in YOUR OWN mind.What I do is not the most common thing you come across in an everyday conversation with someone and when it fell in your lap your first instinct was negativity, instead of keeping an open mind and LEARNING more than what you know about a different situation.I love my children with ALL I have to give and I would NEVER put them in danger,instead YOU did that by making a phonecall and allowing someone that YOU dont even know (to my knowledge) come into my home and tell ME whats best for MY children.My home is clean,I dont do drugs,I work hard,I dont abuse/neglect my children,I am an excellent father I want more for my children than you do, believe me, please dont try to destroy someones life before you learn all the FACTS and then re-evaluate those facts again,and again if theres even a doubt in your mind that you could be wrong. To have the ability to have someones children taken from their parents without proper just cause is cruel to both sides, children and parents.You may do more harm than good and then all your hopes of helping people flies out the window with having a child taken from his LOVING parents arms because YOU didnt feel it was appropriate and you were so knowledgeable in my field (Ball Pythons) already that you didnt have to do some research for yourself so you could feel good at the end of the day and say "I MADE A RESPONSIBLE DECISION" based on THE FACTS not on the stereotypes held by society.Differences in RACE,CULTURES,HOBBIES, FAMILY,BUSINESSES is what sets us aside from the norm and it makes people who they are as individuals and as private society in their own kind,my kind being Ball python breeders and reptile lovers.My son is the smartest child in his class (at least thats what his teacher said) I have exposed him to so many things animals,nature,the airport,the ocean ANYTHING and EVERYTHING,I hunt, so he can recognize animals that NO ONE else in his class would even think to know at his age,and I intend for my daughter to be the same way.My son grew up with the snakes and so will my daughter if DSS doesnt take that right away from me,I dont want my children growing up thinking that they have to conform to EVERY aspect of " basic" society because someone else said they are wrong if they dont. I want them to embrace differences and grow up respecting people,nature and themselves.I want my children to be the best they can be and that sometimes goes against other peoples views and opinions.As long as they ALWAYS keep respect for the individual they will NEVER fail!!!
>>
>>
>>"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
>>-Daniel Webster

XtremeXteriors Apr 03, 2006 10:54 AM

I know,I failed english miserably thats why i sent it to my mom to proof read and correct. I broke it down into paragraphs though that was easy hahahaha its been so long since I wrote something like that.and I didnt want to lose my train of thought

toshamc Apr 03, 2006 11:47 AM

Good letter - only think I see wrong - would be (as already mentioned) that it needs to be broken into paragraphs.

Best of luck - I hope the SOB at least apologizes.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

perseus Apr 03, 2006 02:49 PM

That was well written, but the doctor is still the least of your worries. On the issue of the DSS do not under estimate what they might do. In one first hand case, I witnessed the DSS take a womans 1 year old child away from her for 3 years because she was breast feeding him when he was 1 year old. During this whole time she fought to get her child back but they wouldn't let her have him because the DSS report said "Mouth to breast contact".

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE STUPIDITY AND POWER OF THE DSS!

nita Apr 03, 2006 06:54 PM

How completely stupid!!! I can't believe that they could take away a child because it is being breastfed! I'd sue their a$$ for sure on that one.
-----
Nita Hamilton
--------------
Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

gardenmum Apr 03, 2006 01:47 PM

.

snakebstr Apr 03, 2006 07:01 PM

Even if you don't get anything it might teach him not to go around doing what HE thinks is right. If he is going to turn you in for snakes and small children, Then HE BETTER turn all the DOG owners, Cat Owners, horse owners, Cow Owners, Goat Onwers and people that own any other animals that COULD hurt a small child. What is this world coming to? Pretty soon we won't beable to do anything without it being governed. Where is the FREEDOM our forefathers wanted us to have, It's Almost Gone.

Here is a story I went through a few years ago.

People just want to get into someone elses business...Bottom Line. I once rented a house where the landlord said she didn't care that I had snakes, But she then told our neighbor which was her old neighbor who then told her friend that lived 4-5 house down from us that we had snake, So the lady that lived 4-5 houses down from us was deathly scared of snakes so they called Animal Control and told the we had huge snakes, venomous snakes, and had them in the yard and that we were selling snakes directly from my house. They also told us that we were not supposed to be selling snakes out of our house because it was a housing distric and not a business distric. I NEVER even took the snakes outside and was always real careful when bringing new snakes in. But anyway to make a long long story short. We had Animal Control coming to our door all the time checking for the venomous and other stuff. Then I decided to pay the neighbors a visit to make them stop complaining, And they finally did after I told them that if they kept telling LIES on us I would SUE them. So after a talk with Animal control and and the complaner things finally settled down and then WE MOVED.. People just need to mind their own business, That is why this world is the way it is, Because people like that Doctor, he would be getting a letter from a lawyer on top of one from me.

Thanks David

Nisa Apr 03, 2006 11:36 PM

Unfortunately, when a case involves a child, all that needs said is that someone was concerned for the child and you cannot sue. Been close to a situation like this. There is nothing you can do to a teacher, doctor, or other person who says they are concerned about a child's welfare, no matter what lies they tell. If the lies are about you, or hurt your business, it's different. The only thing you can do is spread the word in the snake world as to who the doctor is, so animal people can avoid him and pass on to others how he works. You can't sue, but you might cut back his business, that's where it would hurt most anyway.

Nisa's mom
-----
3.3 Normal Ball pythons (Hoss, Little Man, Adam, Helen, and the 2 new girls who gets named when they eat)
0.2 Snow corns (Legolas, Eurydice)
1.0 Amel het charcoal (Orlando)
1.0 Hypo het anery het Amel
0.1 Amel het Stripe
0.1 Normal Cal King snake (Sidhe which sounds exactly like "she"
0.0.1 GTP (Kissy the Red)
1.1 Haitian Boa (Enkil and Akasha)

And bunches of furry pets

wftright Apr 04, 2006 07:53 PM

As you're well aware, I passionately agree with your position and with the thoughts that you've expressed here. You've hit the important points, and I hope that this doctor is someone who is still willing to learn. If so, maybe you can educate him and make some positive good come from the situation.

I'm sorry that I haven't responded to your personal e-mail about finding more quotes. I don't have any immediately available. There are a couple of places that I may be able to show you where you might find more quotes. I'm still trying to refine my list so that I don't send you on too many wild goose chases.

If you haven't sent this letter yet and would like me to take a shot at editing, I'll try to do so. I'm sorry that I haven't made any response before now. I've been at fire school for the past two days and didn't have access to my computer (or energy to read the forum). I'll warn you that I can be a brutal editor sometimes. When I started my first job, my first boss was brutal with me, and I've become more like him as I've grown older. (I can remember turning in reports where the only part of my original report that was left was the sentence at the end where I said "If you have any questions, please call ... .) The other danger of me editing is that the letter will sound a little less like you and a little more like a middle-aged engineer. Let me know what you think.

Again, these situations disturb me tremendously. I hope that all goes well for you.

One of the things that you might consider doing is trying to find someone who can tell you exactly what the standards are that require a doctor to report child welfare concerns in your state. In the previous thread, someone made a big deal of a doctor's professional obligation to report concerns, but there must be standards for what constitutes a situation that causes concern. If there are no standards, then all that nonsense about doctors being required to report is still nonsense.

Good luck,

Bill
-----
It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Site Tools