Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hurt your reputation here? I have several lines of thayeri that I really like and want to keep pure BUT if I was to cross breed a thayeri would that make everyone doubt the rest of my thayeri. Please answer truthfully. The reason I ask is I had seen a advertisement on Kingsnake classifieds for a couple of thayeri and the very next add was for a hybrids thayeri and it made me doubt the guy enough that I ended up NOT buying the thayeri. I just want to know you guys feeling on it.

Toby

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www.Wood-N-Snakes.com

Actually, I don't know.. I have thayeri and I also have graybands. In fact I also have an alterna X thayeri line that I like their own merits.(I did not originate the cross but breed them true to each other)
I do not cross any of my snakes since I once put a thayeri in with a mex-mex. It wasn't on purpose but I got distracted. All of the babies from that breeding are accounted for and each person who got one was told exactly what they were.
Anyway, I know quite a few breeders and some do have hybrids and some don't. Those who do have them tend to be very straightforward about the lines and they are usually not the problem.
It is when the snakes change hands a few times that there could be problems down the road I guess.
In my opinion and for what that's worth, you should talk to each person you buy from directly if possible.
I get much more than just the lineage of the snakes in question as I learn about the breeder himself. I can get the feel of the direction he may be taking ($$ vs. hobby, etc)
You know, you can tell in most cases if someone is honest and straight with you and whether or not he knows what he's doing.
When I run into someone who cannot tell honestly what I'm looking at (snake) then I usually decline to offer up my $$.
There are of course those who really don't know what they have and I suspect many of us fall into that gray area once in a while as we're just going on what we were told when we acquired the parents or whatever. So you see, honesty is the biggest deal here. Whether or not you know what the heck you have or not, just be truthful and let others decide.
Sooner or later if we are not on the up and up, legislation will creep into the hobby and bring it to its knees.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Toby, I would say yes to your question. Most people would be leary just like you were when someone was selling both hybrids and pure thayeri. Add to that, that most purists won't want to deal with someone at all, if someone breeds hybrid thayeri. The reason is, that it hurts the hobby. And messes up the gene pool now and for future generations. mike

Chris' Colubrids

Awesome pattern on that F2 female Mike, I really like that one.

Mike

The reasoning behind the conclusion is debatable but I agree. Some people will steer clear of you if you work with hybrids.

I know there are plenty of trusty hybrid breeders out there, who don't misrepresent their products. Unfortunately there are too many others who do misrepresent what they sell and ruin the rep of all hybrid breeders. I don't prefer to keep hybrids, and I don't usually buy from people that sell them because there is a little doubt in the back of mind whether I'm really getting what I paid for. If you're going to pay for a thayeri, why not buy from someone that really cares about keeping them pure?

I agree with the other guys too. Although I like some of the hybrids thayeri I've seen I still would not own one, just because I prefer to keep my thayeri bloodlines pure for myself and for future customers.

That being said I did accidentally breed a male thayeri to a female greyband a few years ago. I had gone out one night and got home late. I went out to my snakeroom (sunroom) and put my male thayeri in with what I thought was my female thayeri. The next morning when I went to check on them I slid out the box and there sat my male thayeri all curled up with my female greyband. I had cleaned boxes just the day before and had not put them back in the same positions. Also I did not turn on the lights in the sunroom that night and just put the male in where the female thayeri had been. I sold all of them cheap as hybrids, some to individuals, most to the pet trade.

Here's one of them that I sold to a friend. BTW he's promised not to breed this guy.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

I could not have said it any better. The problem lies "downstream" from the honest breeder, with other folks who unwittingly (or not) pass off future offspring as the real deal. The Ksnake classifieds are full of such misrepresentations, but quite often the seller is simply unaware of what they've got. Bottom line is that there are enough very reputable breeders with great animals, so why take a chance?--at least that's my approach.

Cheers,

Bob

know what everyones thoughts are on the subject. NOT that Im saying one is right or wrong I think both have thier place, but more wanted to know what you guys thought. Thanks for ya'lls input.

Toby

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www.Wood-N-Snakes.com

I agree with what everyone has said. The real thing that hurts the hobby when someone sells hybrids is that down the line someone who is dishonest might pass off a hybrid as a pure Thayeri thus screwing up someones pure lines they have worked so feverishly to perfect.
Off the subject....that is one of the most detailed close ups I've seen in a long time. Please tell me what kind of camera you used. AWESOME PIC!
Ken