Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am still unsure about the male above and would like some thoughts from you guys on this guy. Thayeri? Ruthveni? Cross? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am fairly new to Mexicana and would like to be able to represent what I have as honest as possible. Here are a few more shots. I posted earlier the same thing but it is on the end of several replies, so I thought I would post again.
Thanks,
William

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www.reptilianobsession.com/index.htm

is that he is pure thayeri. BTW a WAG is a "wild a$$ guess".

I also have "this" male that looks somewhat ruthie. But I KNOW he's pure thayeri.

Both he (yours) and his sibling look like many many other thayeri I've seen in the past. I wouldn't worry, unless you suspect something different????????

"This" male is from 2003 and here's a couple of MSP that look somewhat like rutheni too. The 2003 male is on the bottom.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

I just wasn't sure. Thanks for the WAG. The gentleman I purchased him from said he had bought the parents from Elite reptiles before they shut down. I was just curious and thought guys with more experince with Thayeri could lend some additional knowledge. I have seen posts in the past that discussed the belly patern and the Iris being brown on Thayeri or Mexicana. Any of this make sense or sound like good places to start?
Thanks,
William
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www.reptilianobsession.com/index.htm

What a WAG is now. From now on I know what to call it. HAHAHAHA!!!!

Toby
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www.Wood-N-Snakes.com

I think you should do a ventral scale count with a shed skin and make an educated guess. The last published and accepted study (1982) on mexicana and ruthveni lists ventral scale counts as:

Ruthveni; 182-196 ventral scales

Mexicana; 190-211 ventral scales

The Mexicana group included the three sub-species of l. mexicana, l. thayeri and l. greeri.

Good luck!

Mike

Mike,
Thanks for the response. He should shed in about two weeks and I will do a count. I assume the educated guess part comes when the scale count is in the high range of Mexicana and low end of Ruthveni?
Thanks Again,
William
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www.reptilianobsession.com/index.htm

Your welcome, and you pretty much hit the nail right on the head William. Good luck with that, I hope it goes the way you want it to. Nice looking animal.

Mike

William:

The lack of complete red rings across the ventrum rules out ruthveni, unless there is some hybridization with thayeri in the breeding history. The snake clearly has a thayeri look to it, but in the absence of knowing its ancestry, it's impossible to say it does not reflect a genetic contribution from something like ruthveni. Too bad there's not the equivalent of an in-home pregnancy test that would provide the genetic identity of these things with cute little indicators that turned colors.

Cheers,

Bob