Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I put my Bulls together to breed on the 10th March and twice after this date. They bred successfully the first two times, but the Female rejected the Male on the third time.

Yesterday 3.4.06 the Female laid an egg, which was very soft and flat (like a half filled water balloon) and today she laid another one the same as the first.

I understand the gestation period is 70 days give or take a few.

Please can anybody give me advice or knows why this is happening ???

There's a fairly good chance this is actually a sign of some good eggs on the way. I have had female colubrids pass a bad egg or two and then lay a perfect clutch shortly after. You really won't know until the clutch is laid, and many wonder if thier snake is actually eggbound...which is usually not the case. If this is a young first time female, this is fairly common. Cross your fingers and wait it out. Tom Stevens

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply.

My female Bull is about 6 years old so I've been told, I aquired her about 12 months ago.
This my first attempt at breeding and I have done everything by the book, apart from waiting for her to shed, they both came out of hibernation on the 1st of Feb and I did wait until the 10th March hoping she would have shed by then, before introducing her to the male, a friend of mine who has bred pituophis before said there is no need to wait for the shed before breeding her, she is due to shed very soon as her eyes have just cleared, could this have had any effect on the premature birth of the eggs.
Thanks.

There's no way to really know what effect anything may have had on the eggs....not that I can think of anyway. Can you post a picture of her? How swollen is she? I always consider what "should" happen by "the book"...however if that was the case we'd all have babies coming out of our ears by now. A few more questions....was she sold to you as a proven breeder? Is the male the same age? Did they come from someone you trust? These early slugs are a mystery to me, one guess would be she retained some eggs, or better yet eggs not fully developed from a previous breeding and just now expelled them. That may also mean that if she is going to shed soon she may not lay the eggs until she sheds again??? Hard to say....I am just guessing here. If she is quite swollen to the point where she looks gravid, and you could possibly feel the eggs in her, she very well may be counting the days to lay a clutch. Consider this, if she had retained eggs ar whatever....and she bred but refuses the male now and is swollen but you are not 100% sure she is gravid....she may just be ovulating...and showing a bit of swelling and may want to breed again soon? Guesses and more guesses but I hope it helps Tom Stevens

Hi Tom,
She was not sold as a proven breeder and she hadnt been bred or cooled the previous year, and the guy I buy from is trustworthy, the snakes have never been together until I introduced them on the 10th March.
The Female is looking gravid and swollen on the back end, she as expelled 3 eggs over two days all flat and very soft.

The Male is younger than the Female, he is 4 years old.

I dont seem to beable to post pics on here, do you have an e-mail address I could maybe post them to.

Thanks.

You'll need to sign up with a photo hosting site. I use photobucket.com. You can easily get pictures from your computer onto that site, which makes a URL for each picture. You just copy and paste it into the post here on the forums and you're good to go. It is easy and free, give it a shot Tom Stevens

Pic of the gravid Bull, she has expelled 3 more eggs since my last posting and it looks like theres more to come.
She also shed today.

A pic of 1 of the eggs, all eggs expelled have been as flat as this one, and turned colour soon afterwards

The only thing I can think of is these are undeveloped, or less than fully developed? eggs from last year that she has to pass before she is able to fertilize this years batch? Guessing....but I do remember selling a friend an adult Pine which was huge but only 2 years old. My Pines were as big at that age and they paid no attention t each other when introduced, not even the flick of a toungue. I told him most people wait til their Pits are 3. So he did, and the following spring the Pine laid a batch of slugs....she was never with a male. After she sheds, wether she has laid any good eggs or not, I would feed the heck out of her and introduce your male. It is not like there's much else to try, you can only wonder what may happen. What temps do you keep the Bulls at and how long and how cool was thier brumation? Tom Stevens

The current temp for all my Pituophis is 80degrees daytime and 78 night time.
I put the Bulls into hibernation on the 1st December 2005 and brought them out starting on the 1st of February 2006.
My temps were reduced from 80 degrees to a steady 55 degrees during hibernation, and then raised in the same way back up to 80.

I apologize for not reading your post more carefully. I have to ask if this snake bred last year or was purchased as an adult? Could it possibly be that it retained some eggs from last year? Or possibly that they bred earlier than you noted? If a snake is close to an estimated time of when it should lay its clutch it may pop out a few duds before laying the clutch....but this is extremely early...so I am just not sure. Tom Stevens