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I brumated and bred early due to an impeding move in July and got my first ever thayeri clutch this past weekend! I was lucky enough to catch her while she was still laying so I snapped a few photos. When it was all over she laid 11 plump eggs and lost nearly 100 grams! Pictured below are (1) the female after her first post-brumation shed, (2) her male partner

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Maria

(3) egg #4, (4) clutch of 11 eggs, and (5) the female pictured a few days later.

Thanks for looking!

Maria

n/p

Thats about the earliest start I've heard of. When did you start their brumation Maria? And how long did you brumate? And when did you take them out? I'd love to hear all the details of your breeding program. BTW those are a nice looking pair of snakes. Good luck with your eggs.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Hey, thanks!

Well...they went into brumation the first of November, and came out mid-January. I used a wine cooler set at about 55 degrees to brumate. The top of the door was off-set a bit to allow air exchange and a blanket was thrown over the door to keep it dark. After the female was warmed up, she had a huge appetite so a few days after her first shed on Feb. 7th, I introduced the male. They were both interested right away and I witnessed a number of matings over the next few weeks after separating and re-introducing a number of times. She shed again on March 23rd and laid 11 eggs 8 days later. The female still has good weight and a hearty appetite but I won't attempt a second mating since I'm moving a long distance in early July and I don't want to try to move with eggs that haven't hatched. Hopefully, she won't decide to double clutch on her own. But of course, that's out of my hands!

Thanks for asking!
Maria

Great Job Mheidka.......Do all of them look fertile to you?

And Chris....This is real early, especially from my standpoint, but last year a lady hatched some Alterna eggs in March......Earliest I ever heard of for sure.....

John Lassiter

...all 11 eggs have a nice strong developing vasculature.

I also have 10 (of 12) Western Hognose eggs that are on day 28 and all have developing embryos inside!

Thanks for asking,
Maria

Good luck Maria! That's a nice pair.
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Dan
www.SerpentsOnline.com

n/p

That's just AWESOME! YOU GO GIRL!!! Soooooooooo..... Are you a little excited?!! lol! I know you are! And I know you are already wondering what that clutch is going to look like when those babies come popping out of there! It will drive you absolutely crazy for the next 60 days! I know you've handled a lot of eggs before and you have those Hoggie eggs cooking already, but these being your very first thayeri I am only one year ahead of you in experiencing the excitement and mystery of a first ever thayeri clutch so I know what you are feeling right about now.

They all look really good too... I would say your chances are very good to see all of them hatch.

Do you have just a teeny tiny bit of an idea what I am doing for you over here tonight?!! That's right... I'm wearin' the rug out my friend!

Talk with you soon!

Mike

Oh, and who cares about the picture numbers. We get the idea! Try adding a 1-2-3... or an A-B-C to your pic names when you upload, the system alphabetizes and organizes in ascending order and displays your photos in that order in the post.

Hey Mike buddy!!!!!!

I am indeed, SOOOOO very excited!!!!
You know, I came home from work that day and saw that she had laid 4 eggs..all attached together...so of course I was jumping up and down and figured that was it. I gently took out those eggs to put in the incubator (which she was NOT happy about), then I noticed that she was still VERY plump in her "hind quarters" and still had eggs to lay. I swear I sat there for about 5 hours straight watching her (okay, well I got up to get a beer or two). Seven more eggs later she was finally done. She looked so incredibly thin when she was done and she had no interest in taking food. Nor did she the next day. The whole time her lay box was in with her, I provided her a dish of very shallow water. Full tub of water after she laid. The interesting thing was that even though she did not eat, she gained about 20 grams in 2-3 days from water intake alone (I am presuming). Ok, now you know I am obsessed with weighing things....hard habit to break :^). Anyway, thanks for your gracious excitement for me, and don't damage your carpet with happy dance damage on my account (hee hee...just kidding, dance all you want on my account!!). I wish I knew you last year to see that fantastic clutch you just showed. How many of those did you keep? Three? Are they turning dark or staying light?

Good to talk to you again!
(I sent you an e-amil earlier, too)

Take care,
Maria

Hey Maria little buddy Dudette!!!

Likewise, it's always good talking with you my friend.

Well... the carpet came through the evenings festivities with all it's former glory, ready for the next celebration... and I'm looking forward to a grand celebration on my own behalf this time around!

I still have 1.3 of the 8 that hatched from the melanistic female x white leonis male last year, all leonis with the exception of one milksnake phase female which was the darkest of the three milksnake phase babies. The ones still here really haven't changed all that much... some very slight color overtones developing but otherwise not much in the way of darkening. I really enjoy that clutch, particularly knowing that the melanistic gene is flowing around in there and will eventually show its beautiful face. I only hope that some will at some point be as astonishingly beautiful as this adult female. I honestly wish I would have kept another of the milksnake phase females. Last fall I traded the nicest looking milksnake female along with the only other male from that clutch; I'm really beginning to wish I had never shipped that particular female away. I'm still waiting for the other party to make good on that deal, which makes the situation even more difficult.

I did get your e-mail by the way, lots of fun as always! I knew your post was coming so I put my reply on hold. Look for the reply soon, and expect it to be windy as always!

Talk with you soon!

Mike

....that photo you posted is absolutely precious!! I have seen you post that picture before, and I always wanted to comment on it. Who says that snakes aren't cuddly?! The black background really sets the pair off nicely, too. It would make a great picture to frame and put on the wall. Any desire to put a little copyright on it and let us thayeri lovers use it?

Just a great photo with lots of personality.

Your Buddy,
Maria

Thank you very much for your comments Maria. You see many things the way I do and I appreciate that. There are a few important things those two snakes are telling me in that photo and I am certain you can read those little hints as well. Glad you appreciate it the way you do! Actually that quality you have is why we are such good friends.

That background is real actually, I'm glad you like that too and I'll tell you a bit about it. I think a dark background like that can be really nice and showcase the animals well if done right, I've always liked it. I still have these tanks and at some point may set them up as little photo sets for my animals. That background was applied to a display tank that I was keeping those two females in, along with four other females of the same age. That pic was shot through the front glass. For the background I used the clinging type vinyl window tint film in as dark a shade as I could get. I used two layers on each glass panel that I tinted, which made them very very dark. It's quite a challenge getting the film applied properly without air bubbles but worth it I think. The effect is wonderful, giving the background a depth of space that a paper or even painted on application can't produce. Plus, you can pull it off easily and re-apply it. With a dimly lit tank, it gives the impression similar to never-ending darkness and space in a photo.

This being a public forum in our hobby, everything I post here... thoughts, ideas and photos are here for everyone to use, share, agree or disagree with if they want to, so I am not really interested in the copyright thing at all. I'm not at all looking for fame or fortune with what I do here, this is only a hobby with me and I am involved because I enjoy it and I do like to share. Kingsnake husbandry is simply one thing I do for fun. If I ever find myself being concerned about rights to things or profit in kingsnake husbandry, the fun will have obviously been lost and I will walk away from it.

So..... Enjoy any of the photos I offer in here and do with as you wish. If you really enjoy one enough to put it on your wall, then that is my reward. If you ever want any in its original size and resolution just let me know and I will e-mail it to you!

Talk with you soon!

Mike

Another pic you’ve seen with that background, this snake is back in the rear right corner of the tank and up against the right side glass panel. The right side panel has the vinyl material applied also…

Man that is early. Way to go..........mike

n/p

wow very good. I'm usually an early bird when it comes to thayeri eggs but you've got me beat by a long shot. Wish you the best come hatching day and have your camera ready!
Russ

Thanks, Russ, and good luck with moving your eggs when you get them. I'm trying to avoid that whole scenario. Instead of driving 600 miles, I will be driving about 3,593 miles. That's alot of potential bumps in the road!

Maria

Maria:

Congratulations! You will have the rest of us beat by many weeks. I really like the look of your female--it's a neat variation of the basic MSP--gray on red is nice. You ought to see a good range of variation among the offspring. As for double-clutching, I wouldn't worry too much about moving eggs. They can handle a little movement--you could secure their incubation box (shoebox, rubbermaid, etc.) in a larger box packed with styro peanuts or newspaper, and then hand-carried. I've moved turtle eggs cross-country via airplane and had 100% hatch.

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks for the comliments and the advice, Bob!

I also really liked the narrowness of the red "bands" in the MSP female and the wider proportion of the leonis bands in the male. I'm hoping to see a number of intermediate examples in the offspring with this pair. I am also a big fan of the intermediate MSP pattern with "leonis" heads, that is, grey faces with head ornaments.

I do appreciate your suggestions for packing eggs for moving, and I also read your advice to Russ. When I was trying to plan out the timing last fall, I figured if any of the animals double-clutched, their eggs would hopefully be close to hatching and thus less susceptible to major disturbances. However, the move is complicated by a number of other factors. The distance is about 3,593 miles; Chicago, Illinois to Anchorage , Alaska. I will be traveling through Canada and it will take about a week. Also, Canada requires import permits for turtle and/or turtle eggs, so there is always the chance that the inspectors will not be able to identify the eggs as being snake eggs. I will already have import permits for my 2 Indian Star and 2 Elongated tortoises, however every animal need to be specifically identified and examined by a vet. I also have a number of animals that are CITES I and II listed so I need to have import and export permits with detailed imformation for every animal, for both the US and Canada. If the inspectors think the eggs are from a CITES listed animal, they might confiscate them.

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded response.

Maria