Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this in the Mountain Kings forum as well, but figured it might get seen sooner here.

So, I will soon have a vacant 10 gallon short (the ratsnake who currently inhabits it is growing like a weed and will soon outgrow it!).

I'm starting to do some research on different species of critters that can be housed in a 10 gallon short for the durration of their lives. Some people on anouther forum mentioned to me that some Mountain Kings stay relatively small, and an adult could be comfortably housed in a tank that small.

Is this true? and if so, which species would you suggest? I'm looking into everything from Tarantulas to rubber boas to packman frogs....I only want to get something that would have plenty of room in there....but would always prefer a snake if possible.

Thanks in advance!
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- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

Get a thayeri kingsnake. Also known as variable or nuevo leon kingsnakes. The females are a little smaller. They come in a huge variety of patterns and colors.

These are all thayeri

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

You say the females are smaller. Approx how large to they get?
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- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

I have 5 adult full grown thayeri females. They range in size from 22-31 inches. Avg. is 24 inches. Not only are they a smaller montane kingsnake but probably the temperament of any I've kept. Plus they are really beautiful with a huge variety of colors and patterns. The only drawback to thayeri is that once you get one you'll probably want more. LOL

Check out my website and the mexicana forum for more info on thayeri.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

24" huh? Well, considering that my ratsnake who is currently living in the 10 gallon is 20" and has plenty of room in there, a 24" snake would probably work out just fine.

I went poking around your site a bit. These two really blew me away-

I realize these were both sold, but just for curiousities sake, how much do they generally go for?

Are there any good caresheets out there for them? Do they have the usual kingsnake appehtite?

People keep singing praises about their temperment, which is by far the most important factor to me (well, aside from the size issue, of course).

Thank you again. I'm definatly going to have to start doing some homework on these little beauties!
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- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

Thanks for the compliment Jenn. The two you asked about are about $175-$200 snakes. Thayeri care is just about the same as any other kingsnake. So any book or care sheet for kingsnakes in general is very good. One book I highly recommend is "Kingsnakes and Milksnakes" a complete owner guide by Markel & Bartlett.
As far as appetite go I've found that they are voracious feeders......but I have never... not once... had one bite me. Not that I'm afraid of being bit. Its just most snakes bite most of the time by accident. Not thayeri as a matter of fact they seem to enjoy being handled. Mine seem to enjoy the warmth of my hands a cling to me.

Let me know if you have more questions.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

I've fallen in love with mountain kingsnakes and am thinking about getting one. If I get one, I'll probably go to a 20 long or 29 gallon aquarium. I'm also very taken with the thayeri that Chris mentions above. For either a thayeri or a mountain kingsnake, I'd go to great pains to make the aquarium into a display piece. You're going to have a beautiful snake, and the cage should maximize that beauty. I think it would be easier to make a display cage with a little extra room.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

I hear ya. Heck, you should see the crazy themed out tanks my scenic designer boyfriend is designing for my little ol cornsnake and leucy ratsnake! So yeah, I suppose my little 10 gallon might not do one of these beauties justice.
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- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

i have 3 mnt kings and all of them are awsome. i have a mexican mtn king az mtn king and a califorinia mountain king. i would sugest the AZ mtn king because they are easy to come by and are easy to take care of.

If you are just looking for a pet to put in the 10 galllon aquarium than I woul;d choose something besides a mountain kingsnake. Their are other tri color snakes that make hardier captives that require less skill.

A Pac Man frog is probably one of the most entertaining animals you can keep. All you need is a shallow water dish for him to hydrate and a mouse once every week or two as an adult. Just change thewater dish and feed. Pretty simple.
As babies they will eat anything that moves. Crickets are okay but do not supply the nutrients needed for fast growth. Get small feeder fish from your locale fish/pet store and raise your packman on those until he/she is ready to feed on small mice. Very easy to keep captive but you need to have undertank heating for the frog to digest its food . Overhead heating is not good for these.

A good tricolor snake is a pueblin milk, sinaloan or any of the cetral american milksnakes. The black milks (gaigia ) is highly przed among collectors and does not require the high temps of an undertank heating source. Becuase of their ability (and requirment) to have cooler temps (approx 72F) the black milks make very good "apartment" snakes but will grow to big for a 10 gallon size tank.

Whatever you choose I would not limit myself to a snake that will fit into a 10 gallon tank. If you get a neonate the 10 gallon is really to big tp feel secure and this will limit its ability to thermoregulate and get water. SOme snakes just stop eating if kept in a large tank. You have to have several hide spots and sometimes because they are nervous and afraid they will choose the wrong hide spot for proper temps.

Keep a small neonate in something the size of a rubbermaid showbox. Then once the snake gets bigger you can transfer it to a 10 gallon and it will probably use this for 2 years before needing a larger encloser.

Anyway,, some things to consider. But I do love the mountain kings. If you get one just do some reading on their "sometimes" unusual late summer or early fall fasts and long brumation periods. They are harder to keep from shutting down in winter and than other species. This may cause some problems for you during the first two years of keeping this species.

I agree with Bluerosy - many mtn kingsnakes require an extra level of skill. Not that you can't do it, but there are better choices to start with.

IMO the Arizona mtn kings are pretty easy to care for. Mine easily outgrew a 10 gal tank though. Same with the Tarahumara mtn kings. Pretty easy to care for but may outgrow a 10 gal.

The L. m. thayeri mentioned are montane kingsnakes from Central Mexico and are easier in my opinion than many other "mountain kingsnakes." They stay small and are calm. A good choice for a 10 gal tank.

Mexican milksnakes, while not montane kings, are another good choice. Small, colorful and easy.

Well, it wouldn't be my "first" snake...I currently have a corn and a leucy texas ratsnake. (of course, those are just about the easiest snakes to take care of, so, true, I don't have much experienced with a more complex snake as of yet).

That being said, I'm not set on a mountain king. A few people mentioned to me that they might be able to live in a 10 gallon, and so that is why I started researching them. But, I have since had enough people tell me that a mountain king would be more suited for a 20 gallon, so I now know that they are not an option even if I wanted one.

The Thayeri are gorgeous...and I definatly intend to look further into those. Really, at this point, I'm not set on any particular species, I'm just doing some research and trying to see what my options are, if any, for a tank of that size. Trust me, there are tons of snakes I would love to get, but I just don't have the room at the moment for any more 20-30 gallon tanks. I allready have a spot for the 10 gallon, which is the only reason I started thinking about this. But yeah, I'm looking into everything from pacman frogs, to tarantulas, to rubber boas! So, anything is fair game at this point. And, that tank won't be vacant for around 6 months or so, so I have PLENTY of time to do research (I am not the type to make an impulse buy, don't worry).

Do you really think a 10 gallon would be enough space for a Thayeri? They certainly interest me more, than say, a rubber boa. I'm all about spoiling my animals though, so I only want to get something that would be 100% comfortable in there.

And thank you so much for all your advice.
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- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

That is what my Thayeri is in. He is in his hide a lot during the day. He is 3 yrs old this summer and at 28". I really like him and he has a pretty good feeding response, although he was slow to start feeding this year! Wish I had a female for him, lol!
Todd Hughes

Like I said it will take years for a small neonate to reach the appropriate size for a 10 gallon. A lot can happen in 2-3 years from now so choosing a snake based on the size of the tank is like putting the cart before the horse. A neonate knoblochi make a hardy captive compared to other mountain kings. The xonata complex id probably just that.,, more complex..

Unless you find an adult of the species you want to consider the knoblochi as they are not to big for a 10 gallon IMO. Opinios may vary on a open forum but my experience raising these and other Mt Kings are that a 10 gallon is sufficient.

Also did not mean to diminsih your experoience with snakes in general. I only had to go by what you wrote and how you wrote it,. So no offense by saying it was a first snake for you. I hope you find what you are lookinmg for. Eggs will be hatching this july for most breeders and that is a good time to make your purrchase. I wouyldhold off until then. Just something to think about.....If you get an adult or sub adult you may want to ask (yourself) why the snake is still for sale or why the seller is selling. Its like buying a used car. You get the same problems this snake had passed down from the previous owner.