Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello Everyone,
Is it just me or what, but I seem to see ads for genetic granites all of the time. Not only do they claim to be genetic granites but they also claim that when bred to a yellow belly they will produce ebonies! This is just ridiculous! Amir is the only person to ever produce the ebony ball python, and if you look at his genetic granites they look nothing like the majority of granites on the market. I understand how someone could claim they are genetic when they breed a "granite" to a normal and produce animals with varying degrees of the "granite" trait, but same goes with high color animals. You can breed a high yellow normal to an ugly female and still produce animals they resemble the high yellow animal. Does this mean its a genetic morph? I would say no! It is a line bred trait, that would seem to be inheritable to some degree, but it is by no means a genetic trait. I have some granites of my own and am going to be breeding my yellowbelly male to them this year, do I expect to produce ebonies with them? NO! Can I dream, yes. The reason I suspect I will end up with a bunch of baby yellowbellies and normals is because I dont have any Amir line genetic granites, nor do mine look anything like his. As I think about it, I havnt seen one granite that resembles Amir's (unless it was from his line). It just seems to me that people dont mind doctoring up their stories to make a normal ball python into something its not. Just my opinion, what do you guys think?
thanks
Will Wohlers

I will have to agree with you on that comment. A lot of people try to make their animal something more than they actually are, and that is because they want to snare that next sale. It is amazing how far people will go to make $H!T look like gold. Maybe the average joe may not know the difference, but among the guys that know morphs and genetics, is a whole different story. So i say let them claim what ever they want to, because the real herpers will know who is for real and who is fake, and thats how you EARN your trust and respect in the ball python community.

sargon

Funny you should post this. I contacted one of the sellers a few days ago and asked him the following: Is the granite from Amirs line, and have you produced Ebonies from the line? His response was that it was not Amirs line and that he had not produced Ebonies. I then emailed him that if he sells the granites as Ebony producers, and they do not, he was going to have some irrate customers and alot of explaining to do. He responded by saying that he would change his ad. So far, he has not.

I guess you can look at it this way - yes there are people scamming and trying to pass off questionable animals as granites but ...

1. If the animal is granite looking and reproduces a clutch of granite looking animals then wouldn't that make it a genetic granite?

2. Yes like every other morph there are varying degrees of graniteness. Whos going to be the granite police and tell someone that their granite doesn't quite have enough speckles to conform.

3. Education, education, education. An educated buyer will know the difference. An uneducated buyer should ask - it's common sense.

4. Is it too early to jump on the "ebony" bandwagon? - maybe - I suspect there will be several possible ebony clutches this year to know for sure if any genetic granite will do.

5. We've seen some killer granite crosses done outside of the ebony project to make it a worthwhile morph to play around with. And not all those granite parents have been "spectacular".

My new granite hopeful is similar to but not as spectacular as the Ebony mom - we'll have to wait and see. In the mean time ... we keep our fingers crossed ....
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizard of unknown origin

I don't think i've seen the mom to the Ebony so I can't compare there. I would say that if you breed a granite to a normal and get granites then it is a genetic granite though, claiming it will produce ebonies though is wrong unless they have actually done so with the animal.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

Good point. I mean, technically, every trait a ball python has is genetic. The question is really whether the trait results from a random recombinant DNA sequence, which would make the recurrence of the trait unpredictable, or whether it's a constant recombinant DNA sequence, like a recessive or co-dominant trait.

And I agree about the education thing as well. That's one reason I haven't gotten a yellowbelly yet. I don't really think I know enough about them to feel comfortable buying one yet. But, I'm getting there.

Dave.

I think the problem with the ad is that the person posting the ad is making promises they may or may not be able to keep. If you breed a granite looking male to a normal looking female and get some granite looking babies, I have no problem with someone saying it is genetic. BUT, to say it is a genetic granite and will produce Ebonies when bred to a Yellow Belly, without ever breeding the granite to a yellow belly, is asking for big trouble.

Dave

pic of my granite