Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Its generally regarded these days that the hypomelanistic boa mutation is simple dominant - which means the homozygous (a.k.a. "super", double allele) version does not look distinctly different from the heterzygous (single allele) version. If this is the case, how do those producing hog hypo x hog hypo litters claim to be able to identify which are "super" or not?

Im not trying stir up anything here, just wondering. Do the sunset people believe that the hog locality influence somehow changes the hypo trait into a codominant one? As far as I know, all we have in regards to identifying the supers are best guesses... no way to know 100% for sure. It is also my understanding that even Rich and John from salmonboa will not guarantee supers unless it was from a super x super breeding... and I'd imagine they probably have the most salmon x salmon breeding experience out of anybody out there. So how do the sunset breeders pull it off? Anyone know?
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

Put enough of a twist without proof on anything and you can sell for more without ever actually promising the results you hint toward.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

I think that most folks that are selling a super produced from co-dom parents under the tag of "probable super" are saying what they think it really is with the price tag that comes with it. You just don't get the gaurantee that it is one.

Myself if I gaurantee somthing to be a super and it were to prove not to be, I'd replace the boa with a morph of equal or greater value at my own expence.

The color, and lack of black tail rings at birth makes most stand out in a litter. It's truly a judgment call like some other morphs are. There have been supers that have a less than clean apearance.
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

Trials have shown us that it is certainly possible for some of the best looking individuals in the litter, with all the super-like attributes, to prove out as a non-super. It stands to reason that there would be no difference with the hog island locality influence added.

To me, it seems like one would only sell something as a for sure certain morph only if it definitely was that morph.

A salesman could sell me headphones at the store and tell me they are only 150 ohm...even market them as being 150 ohm... but when I get home and test them they "prove out" to be 300 ohm... The headphones are guaranteed and the store took them back... but still... they told me they were 150 ohm! It's their duty to take them back and I would expect that. The salesmans excuse was that the factory made a mistake and put half of their 300 ohm inventory and half their 150 ohm inventory into identical boxes ... so there was indeed a chance so he sold it to me as such and he even gave them a quick listen and thought they sounded like 150 ohm headphones. Obviously the salesman falsely advertised to me in saying they were definitely one thing, while in truth they could be another.

Does that analogy not mirror the sunset issue?
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

I follow you.. I don't think the hog thing has any influence on whether or not a possible, or probible, or super hypo may be a super or not. You could grade a litter of classic hypos the same way. Lots of people do, some may not say it outright, but your paying for it anyway. Which is just fine thats the way they want to do it I have no problem with it.

Thats just the way I see it.

I think the analogy should be more like you got the head phones and after you used them for a year and a half they weren't performing like you expected them to, so the salesman took them back and exchanged them for headphone and an amp..

Of course headphones don't increase in value with use so equal or greater value dosen't have the growth potential. Really depends on who you buy from and if you trust them to stand behind what they sell.

Not that I want to crack this can of worms, there is enough threads about jungles...LOL... But, say you were to produce a litter of jungles and one was not a jungle but a dead ringer for one, in fact looked like a wicked jungle.. The person who sold the jungles gaurantee is the only thing you have to stand on if it were to prove otherwise..
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

in a jungle litter, there could be a normal that has traits of a jungle. This would fall on the breeders ability to ID the jungles. In a way, the comparison is similiar but still... In a jungle litter there may be one or two borderline boas that are sold as possibles. How many boas, that were thought to be jungles, have proven to be normals? Ive never heard of any. How many boas, that were thought to be super-hypos, have proven to be non-supers. Lots! Of course there have been many more hypo breedings but still... if it were a factor with jungles we would have seen it by now. It is possible for a normal to be mislabeled as a jungle but it is highly unlikely. The same cannot be said regarding super hypos (except for super x super liters).

Im with you in that it is fine to grade and price possible super hypo boas based on how strong one feels it is a super. But it still doesn't seem right to me to call it a super-hypo, because in truth no one knows for sure.
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

got off track.
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

I may be remembering wrong, but I thought a few months ago it was said that sunsets are the dominant forms of both "blonde" and hypo.I also remember recently someone saying that the nondominant hypos from the pairings are sold as sunset crosses.With that logic, anyone selling a snake as a sunset IS making the claim that it is in fact a super hypo, and super "blonde", no?
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Davey Giltner

np

You would have to ask someone else on that.
From my understanding, there is a group of people who believe that the hogg island's appearance is caused by single gene mutation. They believe it to be a dominant gene and the normal siblings to sunsets are "blonde". From what I gathered it seems that the animals have to be both "super blonde" AND "super hypo" to be sunsets, but how do you prove those things out?
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Davey Giltner

to prove I mean.

for more, check this link.
I am still not sure I am reading it right.
http://constrictorsnw.proboards30.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1132108837
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Davey Giltner

I have alot of experience with the D&M line Sunsets and it is as clear as a Jungle to Normal in a litter to see the Sunsets from crosses. What I mean by that is you can clearly tell what is a Sunset, but ones that you think may just be crosses can always prove out to be actual Sunsets. Of course if you sell something as a Sunset and it doesn't prove out you should replace it with a like age and sex actual Sunset. I hope this helps.

I think in other lines that are less refined or lower quality D&M line animals it becomes harder to tell if they are actual Sunsets or just crosses. This would also affect the price of the babys just as top of the line hypos can sell for up to five or more times than lesser quality hypos.

I have a hog island and I breed it with my samon. What do I get?
Lynn

Half of the litter will be Hypo x Hogs aka Sunset crosses. If you breed a pair of those crosses together 25% of the litter should be actual Sunsets.