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every boa that derives from a different bloodline gets a name and it turns out that that individual snake does not carry on those traits to thier offspring what are you as a breeder going to do? Say "Oh well" "Ooops!" or are you going to refund the money or what?

For instance the HOTLEYS: Now I 100% understand where the name derived and so on BUT, What happens if you breed a HOTLEY and none of the normal offspring appear as Harliquens. You can not honestly tell me that just because the mother was from a harliquen bloodline that every baby carries that trait! The father was a Motley and only a handfull of babies inherited that trait. You dont refer to all the babies a motleys do you???

Did the original Harliquen bloodline not produce PATTERNLESS offspring? And the Harliquen bloodline was credited for producing these animals no? Also true Harliquens have a distinct look that is clean and often times abberent/reduced pattern. That in turn means that something is going on with that bloodline and that not every animal that is considered harliquen just because its mother or father was a Harliquen. More breeding with that bloodline needs to be done before every animal that derives from that bloodline is considered a true Harliquen.

And the new topic of debate the MOONGLOW... I could careless what people call it, as long as it carries three key traits end of story. However when people are saying well it carries the Orangasm bloodline so it should be called a Moonglow and everything that does not come from a Orangasm blood should be a snowglow WTF? I have seen the original orangasm mother and the snakes that come from that bloodline they are jaw droppers. But explain to me how in the world could you tell if the snake mark produced carries the Orangasm gene? ITS WHITE!!!! Look at the pics clearly some of the offspring are orange and others are not!!! If I am going to buy an Orangasm I want what the name implies an orange snake.

I could go on with other topics but these are just the recent ones...

Maybe I'm wrong but I do not see how some ppl are experts on all these bloodlines when they just surfaced in the community and they have never done any breedings of these bloodlines of their own.

Don't attack me I wont reply just state your point of view

Thanks for reading

-Greg Reinert-

Hey Greg,

My thoughts on this is that the Names MoonGlow and SnowGlow gives a distinguishing factor to the two names that everyone wants to use.
While it cannot be determined if the new MoonGlow does carry the Orangasm gene...because it is white....it does distiguish it from the SnowGlow lines in better understanding.

People were saying they will continue to call them Snowglows anyway....while Mark who has every right to name this boa can call his MoonGlows....well now his MoonGlows will be in the Highest demand !!! Why because they may be carriers of the awesome Orangasm gene!!!

Well Done!

Andy

Posted by: Psycodelic at Sat Apr 8 14:31:53 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

every boa that derives from a different bloodline gets a name and it turns out that that individual snake does not carry on those traits to thier offspring what are you as a breeder going to do? Say "Oh well" "Ooops!" or are you going to refund the money or what?

For instance the HOTLEYS: Now I 100% understand where the name derived and so on BUT, What happens if you breed a HOTLEY and none of the normal offspring appear as Harliquens. You can not honestly tell me that just because the mother was from a harliquen bloodline that every baby carries that trait! The father was a Motley and only a handfull of babies inherited that trait. You dont refer to all the babies a motleys do you???

Did the original Harliquen bloodline not produce PATTERNLESS offspring? And the Harliquen bloodline was credited for producing these animals no? Also true Harliquens have a distinct look that is clean and often times abberent/reduced pattern. That in turn means that something is going on with that bloodline and that not every animal that is considered harliquen just because its mother or father was a Harliquen. More breeding with that bloodline needs to be done before every animal that derives from that bloodline is considered a true Harliquen.

And the new topic of debate the MOONGLOW... I could careless what people call it, as long as it carries three key traits end of story. However when people are saying well it carries the Orangasm bloodline so it should be called a Moonglow and everything that does not come from a Orangasm blood should be a snowglow WTF? I have seen the original orangasm mother and the snakes that come from that bloodline they are jaw droppers. But explain to me how in the world could you tell if the snake mark produced carries the Orangasm gene? ITS WHITE!!!! Look at the pics clearly some of the offspring are orange and others are not!!! If I am going to buy an Orangasm I want what the name implies an orange snake.

I could go on with other topics but these are just the recent ones...

Maybe I'm wrong but I do not see how some ppl are experts on all these bloodlines when they just surfaced in the community and they have never done any breedings of these bloodlines of their own.

Don't attack me I wont reply just state your point of view

Thanks for reading

-Greg Reinert-
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I wouldn't call the Orangasm a gene. I would simply use the name difference as a singification of BLOODLINE! Because we can NOT deny that it IS related to the Orangasm Bloodline!

True it is related to the bloodlines from which Orangasms originate but again it is a trait and not a bloodline as all snakes that come from the same blood are not orangasms.

-Greg Reinert-

How can you tell if the snake in question carries the Orangasm gene without breeding it??? It is white??? It would be different story if it was a bloodline but that is not the case.

-Greg Reinert-

disregard Harlequins, because I feel only the Magees should answer there.

However, useing Moonglow for Orangasm Hypo Snows is no different than calling them Orangasm Snowglows.

The distinction of bloodline is that, and only that. A distinction of bloodline. With more captive breeding than ever, people like to know what bloodlines their boas are related to.

Regardless of a difference of appearance between Orangasm Hypo Snows, and other Hypo Snows there should be a label to the name. Why? Because it is still Orangasm. I expect if bred to a normal, Orangasm Hypos will be born.

Calling it a MOONGLOW Lets EVERYONE know it is related to the Orangasm line. This also is a viable point for the customer who wants to breed their Hypo Snow to a COMPLETELY UNRELATED Triple het. If they buy a Moonglow, they would know not to get an Orangasm triple het. (Unless they wanted to harness the Orangasm bloodline even more [selective breeding]).

Useing a unique name for a Bloodline's morph is only a small step from what we allready do.

So every differnt bloodline get is own name well Ill stop there because there is hundredes of different breeders who refer to the name of their offspring by the correct terminology they dont give them some cooky name because it is their differnent bloodline (well some do). Orangasm is not a bloodline it is a trait that carried on and makes the carrying offspring orange in appearence.

If every bloodline gets a name then when I produce hypo snows I'm gonna call then snowmoonghostmoonblizzardsnowglows because they are from a differnt bloodline that differs from everyone elses??? I think not.

If sharpstrains were produced then they should be refered to differently. But in the meantime Mark should say if asked they are Moonglows and the mother was dbl. het. snow and the father was a triple het. from franks orangasm line not Moonglows because they might be an orangasm, or because the father was one.

-Greg Reinert-

The original discussion is about why Mark gets to name his new Morph .... MoonGlow!

Everyone was chimming in saying we will just call ours Snowglows when we have them...

So fine everyone gets to name theirs SnowGlows and now there is a good basis to distinguish as to why!

Also you said one parent was an Orangasm....I think both were....that was my understanding anyway..

Take care, Andy
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I stated I could careless what it is called. My point was people were saying that Hypo Snows should be called SnowGlows and Marks should be MoonGlow because of the Orangasm factor which indicates people have no clue what an Orangasm really is.

I just got off the phone with Frank and Both these parents were Orangasm. I think the color is amazing on these kids and i am just more than anything ecited to be so furtunate to have such a great litter.

Thanks for everyones opinions on the name, its certainly made for good reading on the forums the last few days.

Cheers,
Mark

PS, MoonGlows rock huh Andy?

"More breeding with that bloodline needs to be done before every animal that derives from that bloodline can be considered a true harlequin." I am a huge fan of the looks of harlequins. They are truely a beautiful bloodline. But if you breed a harlequin to a normal how on earth can every baby be considered a harlequin. They have a certain look and traits like abberancies that make them harlequins. If you took a baby from that breeding and bred it to a hypo. Then took a hypo from that breeding and bred it to another hypo, will all of the babies be harlequins? Will any of the babies be harlequins? Will any of the babies show abberancies? It just makes sense that without constantly breeding them back to other harlequins the harley look will eventually be washed out and not exist in the offspring. I realize that harlequins are considered a bloodline and not a morph but they do have a certain look. I hear things like we really don't know how harlequins work yet, we are still trying to figure it out. Then you simply shouldn't call all of the babies from them harlequins. It simply isn't proven yet. Like I said before I am a fan of the look of harlequins, and right now I'm sure most of the babies being produced by them look harlequin, but eventually after many breedings it is possible that not one baby will look harlequin. Let's hope that one of the Magee's will respond without saying shoot me an email.
Michael Burton

Copy/Paste:

"We really dont know how the genetics are working with the harlequins... seems to be some funky stuff going on. The patternless has really thrown everyone for a loop as well.

So we really dont know which individuals within the bloodline are going to throw aberrant or high color (ie harlequin) traits. Therefore everything produced by the bloodline is considered harlequin... at this point it doesnt matter how many generations down.

I think you are dead on in saying that as you get into further outcrossed generations that the harlequin traits will be weakened. I believe this has been observed through trails with the harlys. Often I have seen the Magee's refer to 1/4 blood harlequins .. or 1/8th.. etc . The more harlequin blood the better. But, again, at this point it doesnt matter if its 1/2 harly blood of 1/64... they are still considered harlequin... There is no phenotype parameters to define what is and isnt... only the bloodline."
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

Ryan,
I really hoping for one of the originators to explain a little more. They are the ones who decided to call all of the offspring harlequins so I'm hoping they will explain where they got this idea.
Michael Burton

I have spoken with them personally on the matter (multiple times) as well as Gray Rushin.

There are phenotypes (traits) that the bloodline throws... fairly sporadicly... its not pinned down... it may not be able to be pinned down (who knows)... therefore we cannot define parameters for it at this point, meaning we cant say a certain phenotype or look is a harlequin while another isnt. So they are all labeled as harlequin, with "bloodline" being implied. When you buy a "harlequin" out there you are purchasing a harlequin bloodline animal... there are no guarantees for it to throw patternlesses... aberrancies... etc. I believe fairly normal looking harlequins have thrown some extremely aberrant offspring, so how could we pin down a specific look that throws these traits? We cant. Maybe one day certain things can be isolated and figured out but at this point thats where we are at with it.
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

I got this factual information from 9 years of hands on experience with these animals. As Ryan keeps mentioning to you,"Harlequin" is the name of a bloodline & NOT a monotypical mutation...
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So after many breedings like I stated in my other post, you would still consider them Harlequins way down the line? Harlequin does have a certain look, correct? Will the babies from many outcrossed breeding produce harlequin looking babies at all? Will any of them have the abberancies? I realize that anything crossed with the harlequin gene is more expensive, I am just trying to find out if the babies will still look like a harlequin.
Michael Burton

You seem to have alot of questions Micheal...I'll be happy to try to answer them for you,but I'm not interested in trying to convince you here on the Forum that nine years of experience outweighs six months of idle curiousity. I'm not sure what my project has to do with "orangasms",or "sock boas" anyway??? If you don't believe what I've said so far,that's perfectly fine with me,move on to something you can believe in that fits your preconceived notions of how it should behave.
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