Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I firmly believe that the naming of the new morph belongs to Justin as he did produce the first representation of the three morphs in one Boa. If the first proven litter of Motleys or Sunglows ect were stillborn at birth, I'm confident those names would've remained all the same. Justins Boa was the first viable mixture and was alive and growing in the womb(?), and was visably obvious at parturition to be a Hypo/Snow.
Due to so many separate posts, I wasn't sure where to put this, so I started my own.
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I'm just the snake room janitor

I agree, but if nothing then a combination of the 2 would be just fine with me as well.

n/p

LOL, might as well go further back and which pair was introduced first

It is not my intent to take anything away from either of these gentlemen,however it has been my experience that failure is seldom rewarded.I do not personally know either of these individauls,but I believe Mark has the right to name them due to him producing viable offspring.

However, I have/had viable offspring from the first every triple het breeding. What does that make them hypo poss. het for moonglow? They were on the ground first, I have 9 and they are poss. het snowglow.

Call it what you will. Mark call me if you want... you know you have an email from me.

How about this, someone set up an unbiased pole. See what the outcome is? Name stands no hard feelings?

I believe you may have misunderstood what I am trying to say.Once again I am only voicing my opinion,not trying to flame anyone,so please take no offense.My understanding is that your tripple homozygous animal was stillborn(If I am wrong please correct me)? Do I understand you to say that you produced the first successful breeding of 2 tripple hets?I may be wrong but I was sure I read somewhere that that breeding took place last year with no tripple homozygous animal born.I may be wrong on that I will research.Thanks in advance for any info. or corrections anyone may wish to add.

Clarification, triple het. to double het.

I set one up, but don't think I can link to our site here...I tried
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Davey Giltner

Wait a minute, I was the first person to breed a triple het to a triple het, and got all slugs, and I think the name should be Sluglow! I was the first to BREED them, so I think my name should stand.

Ok, not really, but that is how rediculous it sounds for someone who got hets for Snowglow/Moonglow or one stillborn to be able to name something. In my opinion, name them what you want, if two or three of you got animals about the same time, name it what you want and the best name will probably be the one that sticks.

Justin im not sure what email address you used, but at this point i have not recieved any email. My email address is
locolizard@cox.net

my phone number is 785-249-0096

I have a show to do tommorow so i will busy most of the day, but ill be free in the evening if you wanna chat, feel fee to call me, i have no contact info for you.

Thanks,
Mark

Cool, I just emailed you from your forum name. Anyhow, I also emailed you at the other email address. I'll give you a buzz later.

hope the show goes well.

I agree that both ppl have strived to achieve greatness in the hobby, and credit is due to each person.
If though - I bred an Albino to a possible het and the entire litter was stillborn, but had Albinos in it , I could then call/name her a definite het because she produced proven offspring. Thus is the same scenario that Justin is facing.
I've had a premie litter last year to where a couple of babies popped through their birth sacs, took one breath, and then writhed around and died (I assume their lungs weren't developed), if one of those were by chance the controversial Hypo/Snow, would I have the right to name them just because of one intake of air? This same thing could've happened to Justins litter, unless he was right their to catch it. Regardless, coming out first, even stillborn , and showing the three morphs is still a Hyoo/Snow stillborn, and he shouldn't be told that he had a stillborn Moonglow, but instead he should be telling us what he had.
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I'm just the snake room janitor

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I'm just the snake room janitor

I work in San Francisco, my animals are 75 miles away from my place of work. I got a call around 4 ish pst. that there were babies, heck they could have been born the night before. Due to traffic, I wasn't able to get there until seven. Upon noticing the babies the female was removed from the cage. Heck, they may have been live for hours and not still born at all? It's killing me, to know that they could have all been alive. I know breeders out there have had this happen. Secondly, the litter was not all dead. More than half is alive so that makes me think. Mute point now, but info I thought you should know.

Hi, have you posted pics yet? am I just missing them?

for Justin on a thread that got deleted. I will start a new thread up top with the photos for anyone interested in seeing them...

Thanks,
Celia
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Celia Chien
Celia Chien Photography

www.ExoticsByNature.com

www.BoaConstrictorMorphs.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

Thank you Celia! I as going crazy searching for those pics!
Caden

First, Congrats definitely go out to both of you... Alive or dead, they are both a great acomplishment. My opinion on this, and I am sure some may agree and others will disagree, But i think since both animals were produced, Both should have some say in what to name it.. It seems Mark being the owner of the second born, but only living one is feeling as though since his in the one alive, naming should go completely to him with no opinions or thoughts to Justin just because his died. Nobody knows for sure if it was stilborn, died 5 minutes after it was born or 5 hours... nobody knows for sure. The fact of the matter is in the spirit of the hobby and BOTH knowing Justin produced his first... by 4 days, both of them should have a say as to what the name is... Maybe Justin Waitied too long? maybe he should have posted a photo of it when he discoverd it and named it then? Would that have been the right thing to do? Should he just go ahead and name it and forget about the "moonglow" name? Just teh way Mark posted in one of the other Threads "Thanks Frank! MoonGlow it is!" seems like he is rubbing in the fact that his is alive and Justins isnt... Dead doesnt mean that the didnt produce it, adn that he doesnt deserve credit for producing it first... he did in fact produce a full term snake... for whatever reason be it stillborn, unformed lungs, or possibly crushing from the mother... He produced it first... end of story. The honorable and mature thing to do is for Justin and Mark to talk between themselves, give credit where credit is due and both come to an agreement on a name.... I think all would be satisfied with this and all the he said / she said will be over and done with...

Thank you for your input on the situation wonderfully put. I'm not attempting to steal any of Mark's thunder and frankly want to put this to bed once and for all. Mark, I would really like it if you called me. I have emailed you my number but nothing as of yet. Anyhow, the respect street is two ways. I 100% respect Mark and his decision, but the fact is this controversy will not go away unless we settle it like men. The unilateral decision is not the ethical thing when you know there was another born out there previously.

With money comes advertising and with advertising comes spiffy names, and with spiffy names comes recognition and identification. There should be no intention to contrive a tangential name that will only confuse the consumer more than they already are. Spiffy names are cool, but its disheartens me to see an animal(morph) identified as two different names. I'm willing to work with you. Take a poll of 100 people, ask the 5 biggest breeders what they think, whatever...I'd like to see concensus without the ball python world flowing over into boas.

Mark, feel free to call me anytime,

Justin

Sean,
I think the thread where you posted pics was deleted. Could you please repost them along with a quick review of what you stated about it before. Thanks.
Michael Burton

I'll go ahead and put up some of what I wrote with that thread.

Thanks!
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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.BoaConstrictorMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

I have been reading though the Name Game debates for Hypo Snows and most of what I have read seems rather childish. I have always thought that the person who first develops a morph should have a say in naming the morphs, but is that their right? What if the name they decide upon is really stupid! Usage, acceptance and time tested seems to be the deciding factor. We don’t even know what an adult looks like. Is the phenotype of a Hypo Snow so obvious that we know we have one? Could they be a variation of a Snow? Where are the Snows in these clutches?

Snow is time tested and so is Hypo, so we do know they are Hypo Snows. Why is it necessary to name a new morph so quickly? Throw some possible names out there and talk about if for awhile. I personally think that SnowGlow sounds pretty bad. It seems to be an attempt to combine Snow with Sunglow. Wouldn’t they actually be AneryGlows? Or Ghost Amels (Ghost Albinos or Albino Ghosts). I personally think that MoonGlow is more in line with the SunGlow theme, but there are many other possibilities as well. MoonGlow seems to have some meaning and gives you an idea of what the phenotype looks like before you see one, but SnowGlow falls short if you ask me. What is a Snow glow anyway? Does Snow glow? Somebody that doesn’t even own a boa may come up with the perfect name, that the majority thinks is very fitting.

I don’t know either party involved in this Name Game debate. Who was really first? I don’t see how a still born or even one that is born alive and then dies, has any credibility for creating a morph. The morph needs to be viable and then reproduce itself or at least grow up so we can see what the adult phenotype looks like. The dead one surely won‘t grow up or even go through a shed or two. I would like to see them proven to actually be Hypo Snows. With a little age, it may be that obvious.

We all would agree that Hypo Amel Anery won’t work, but Hypo Snow will for awhile. For all we know, the live one may not eat and therefore not be viable either. I hope it eats like a pig and grows quickly, but it seems to me that trying to take credit for a morph that is not viable is like trying to take credit for an invention that doesn’t work. Possible het this and possible het that. Good grief, they are possibly het for Hypo or which ever gene they are not homo for. I actually like referring to a Morph as het for the Morph it can create, but that is not really what they are het for. An Amel (Albino) is het for Anery not Snow, but enough time has gone by that we know what they mean. Trying to say something is het for MoonGlow or SnowGlow is very premature in my opinion.
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Joe Pierce
Snakes Alive!
"Home of the guaranteed feeders"
"If it won't eat, it is not worth a dime!"