Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Its been a few months sins I started my new venture with agamids, they are more captivating then I first tot they would be, also much easier then I was told.

Those who knows me from my work with crocodilians, elapids and varanids know that I usually go my own way, I care for the animals first and foremost, I do read care sheets and take advise given to me by experienced keepers, however my job is to take what works and discard the rest, this seems to offend many, for this I am sorry! Its never been my intent to hurt any one in any way.

As Iv been doing for decades with other groups of reptiles, I provide new information from my captives, and leave you with the decision to make changes or keep doing what works for you.

It’s a common belief that tree dragons, mountain dragons and forest dragons should be maintained at lower temps, however all my animals witch are WC imports have been doing much better sins allowed to bask at 115f , they changed from being lethargic to capable energetic hunters when I changed my husbandry to NTL75f and DTH80f with 115f basking high humidity and daily feeding. The middle female is gravid with her second clutch already and the right female nested last week, she was seen copulating sins, however I feel these secondary mating are unnecessary with these dragons.

Without heat possibilities these lizards are parasites susceptible, none of my 50 WC agamid have been treated for parasites, in fact I completely stopped wormers more then 5 years ago. Drugs aren’t a solution to husbandry disease, proper husbandry allows reptiles to control or free itself from unwanted parasites.
Rgds

To my experience , Acanthosaura and -more intensively- Gonocephalus species do bask.
But in my hands most specimens do that only if they find a small basking area within a larger tank with pronounced dark areas.
If its too bright overall, they avoid the baslking sites.
And I may add a warning: Many of these agamids do bask a lot if they have parasite problems.

Ci@o

Ingo

Exactly basking is nature way for reptiles to deparasite, it’s a tool not the only tool but perhaps the most effective tool. Most known parasite die when temps reach 40c and other parasites from sub Saharan reptiles are known to tolerate up to 55c. these temps should be available as a tool, reptiles will use them if needed.

the concept of using drugs on reptiles to cure bad husbandry is unrealistic, but hey some pepoles make a living out of it.

In principle you are right.
But following the stress of capturing and transportation, parasite loads can get severely out of balance and simple basking won´t suffice to allow the animal to survive.
I strongly recommend to deparasite imports and this is of special importance for asian -non gecko- imports.
Don´t ask me why, but thats my experience.
An intensively basking freshly imported Gonocephalus or Acanthosaury should be thoroughly checked for parasites and treated accordingly.
Just my 2 cts

Ingo

I feel this is perhaps the most important subject in herpetoculture, yet its avoided and misunderstood.

Reptiles in nature are far more stressed then captives, yes I understand the stress of shipping and the terrible conditions and all related, however wild reptiles are regularly subjected to such stresses, be it after floods, hurricanes, drought, frost or co specific or predatory aggression they get stressed and victim of parasites outbreak, oh and add leaches and ticks if nothing else, the only difference between wild and our captives are the tools available. We as keepers don’t understand these tools, we keep these animals in terrible conditions and when they fail blame it on parasites.

For me the use of wormers is something I don’t understand, probably the same way most peoples don’t understand my views of this. However in my case I have 1000s of specimens to support my ideology.
I base my judgement on 100s of wc reptiles, not on a few pets
rgds

There is definitely truth in that.
But...look at mortality rates and longevity of wild reptiles and compare them to parasite free vs parasite loaded captive specimens.
Also compare the parasite load of fresh imports with that of wild living specimens.
And last not least: Compare mortality rates of untreated imports vs treated imports.
Whereas for geckos you may hardly find a difference, for chameleons it matters a lot.
Its hard to keep a wc chameleon alive without deparasitation.
I check my animals regularily and some of my long time residents do test positive for something, mainly coccidia.
I do not treat those as long as they appear healthy.
But I do not dare to act similar for fresh imports.
Just my 2 cts...

Ingo

That’s easy none treated lizards wins hands down 80 to 1.
However this is if they are given good conditions, most captives die because they are kept in poor conditions, the owners don’t even know what they are doing wrong. When seeking help they get plenty of conflicting care information, or they are sent to the vet.

The very first step should be an analyst of ones husbandry, then making correctives.
Simply observing an animal will tell you if it’s stressed, a keepers job is to reduce this stress to a minimum. When this is applied to any captive regardless of specie, they thrive!
Its not about complicated formulas, it’s a simple mater of providing good husbandry.

My acclimation success has raised by 100% sins iv stop treating for parasites, I use to be amazed at how almost dead reptiles fully recovered without my intervention. However nowadays I consider this standard practice, I now see parasitism as just one more myth of herpetoculture. What saddens me is the reptile industry has become a source of income for many, it’s unlikely that such simple husbandry application will be favoured.
Animal medicine and by products generates millions every year.
Animal welfare has become secondary, but hey you can always buy an other lizard right!?

Everything boils down to chooses, temperature! Hydration! Feeding! Living accessories (usable not decorative) give them choices not just one choice but a usable range of choices. If these are provided and stress kept to a minimum, it doesn’t matter what species or where it comes from it will thrive.

You do understand that if Id have followed husbandry advise given to me, I would have lost a few lizards already, no dough. We can’t do the same mistakes repeatedly and hope for different results.

Kind regards