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I thought this might get people to laugh a little. I was reading these recent comments on naming. Congrats by the way, very pretty snakes, so much fun. I then thought back and remembered that VPI actually produced the first "sunglow" boas (2) in a litter of perfect babies. Then I realized I had no idea who thought of the name, where it came from, and when it happened! Now realizing my old age is creeping up on me, I at least consoled myself that at least I know a pretty boa when I see one, and have enjoyed the time I have spent taking care of my boas and interacting with people who also like boas!

The fact is the naming issue is a valid one and the history of each new one should be maintained. We have really gone to lengths on this topic in our upcoming ball python book--talk about a lot of names!! There is protocol and this protocol should be followed. In the mean time I'll keep searching my memory, I know the details are in there somewhere!

Tracy/VPI

because in 1997 I sold my whole collection to him because I thought I wanted out of Boas and I've regreted it ever since. I took a trio of DH Ghosts from him as partial payment at that time just to have some babies to play with and I'm glad I did, producing Ghosts helped me build my collection back up to what it is now.

I was also supposed to do a job for him then for another pair of Boas he just produced that he was calling DH for Sunglows. The job never happened but at the time I thought Sunglow was such a hokey name for a Boa and remember my friends and I telling him nobody is going to buy a Boa named a Sunglow, now I have SunglowBoa.com coming out, go figure. The name and the Boa has grown very popular since then, maybe MoonGlow will do the same over the next few years.

Do I win a prize?
Brock

First let me say it is very nice to hear the opinion of the big breeders like you and Frank on this issue. I am curious to know what Rich, Jeremy, Pete and others think.

Now a few questions.
Is the naming of a new morph the right of the producer of the first snake if it is born dead?

How should the first snake be docummented; in this case Justin notified other people but should a public notification be required to acknowledge the producer of the first snake?

Finally, and this is more of an opinion question, do you favor the use of unique names for morphs or more generic descriptive terms like snowghost. I ask this because you have been fortunate through your hard work to be in the position to name a number of morphs and have used both descriptive and unique names and I wonder if there is a guideline you follow?

The boa world will probably produce a number of new combination morphs in the next few years and it would be nice to have these issues clarified so this kind of problem can be avoided in the future.

Bill Kirby

Brock, First to answer your question posed to Tracy. It wasn't Tip Powers. In fact, Tip was called them DH for Candy Apple Boas on his web site back in 97. He and I discussed this a lot. I don't want to speak for Tip, but I remember those conversations we had. Anyway, I suggested to him at the time, that we should stick to what the Cornsnake Breeders call a SNOW HYPO, which is SUNGLOW.

That Brings me to my next point. I know that many poeple like to think about naming, and I do think it is important, but I think there should be more of a Standard Protocol like Tracy so that it will end confusion. If you already know, there are many names given to Bloodlines that can't even be explained as to how they are genetic. I would list a few, but I don't want to offend anyone, as that isn't my intent, and it isn't my intent to say they shouldn't have names.

The problem is, that many are confused with the existing names of traits. That is why I think with crossed genes that have already been done by certain other breeders that have a COMMON following such, as cornsnake or Ballpythons, then we should stick with them to help end confusion.

Bill, you bring up many great points. Expecially about the dead Morphs. I read up on a few of the posts, and I heard you mention Blizzard as not being produced yet. It has, actually been produced, but not alive. There were also some threads above about the naming of DH's and Tripple Hets. I produced DH snow Blizzards 6 years ago and called them that because the Cornsnake Breeders call the BLIZZARD corn the exact same way it would be produced with the Boas. It is the Type 2 Gene that distinguishes the Blizzard from the Snow.

Anyway, It is great to discuss this, and I would like to give my protocol point of view, but I don't want to offend anyone, but it would be nice to follow a way that ends confusion.

I'll end with this. Bill is right. Many, Many new combos are going to come out, and it would be good to get a good protocol on how others can understand the traits. I also think that it shouldn't be a spot of contention or people to take sides and create dissention just for spite or jealousy. Michael, there are many people who do produce animals and stay quite, because they really don't care about the "CREDIT" of being the FIRST to produce. Many would love to have the honor of naming an animal, and that is great too. That adds to the excitement of breeding.

I have been the first, like Tracy and Bill, to produce a lot of Combination Boas. I am not saying this to toot my horn. I will name a few. Hypo Motley, Super Motley, Hypo Arabesque, Hypo Super Motley (that was dead)and a few others genes. It is a great thing to look at an animal and know that nobody has seen what you are looking at. I personally have tried to keep it simple with the naming, and maybe that is a good thing or a bad thing. I didn't put a new name to the boas that I produced. I called them what they were unless there was a specific name already given to the combos by other breeders who produced. I would like to try to keep it simple and hope that others would do the same. I think if it is the Same Combination of genes that have been done before by another Snake, then it would be EASY to keep that Same name to void confusion.

I do also think it would nice to get a protocol, but the question, is how can we implement it? Is there a way without someone with credibility saying it without getting "BLASTED"?

I hope that we just don't loose site. It is a NAME.. The important thing is we have some more looks and combo genes to ad to the excitement for many many years to come. Congrats to everyone who contributes to that in anyway by breeding. That is what makes this Hobby and business so Great. We can all participate.

Yes, I will give more opinions if or when it is appropriate. I know I have gotten many emails of people asking me to express thoughts or my views. My opinion is just like anyone elses, and you know what they say about opinions?

Jeremy Stone

Thanks for the reply and congrats for producing all of the first time morphs. I can only imagine what that feeling must be like. I don't think there is anything wrong think with being humble and low key. I think it shows lots of class that these breeders wouldn't really care if they got credit or not. On the other hand if it was me I would post tons of pics and shout out loud on this forum mostly because every one of my friends would care less. But I know I like to find out everything about bloodlines and morphs when I work with them. I am just hoping to find out what the protocol is so when someone is researching or writing a book, they can find out who really produced the first hypo snow, moonglow, snowglow. In my opinion it would be Justin, but I could be totally wrong here. I'm glad you gave a little more insight to the issue.
Michael Burton

I think you may have meant "hypo/albino" in your cornsnake analogy?(in regards to the mention of the"sunglow".) I think as breeders there should also be some consideration to the elements of truth,and accuracy in regards to the presentation of our endeavors,not just convenience & marketing ploys,or stratagies to make money. It is always nice when new discoveries fit the convenient parameters of what is already commonly thought to be understood by the vast majority of the herpetocultural community,however,without some restraint,and cautious forethought,jumping to premature conclusions can indelibly taint public perception of a project,or classification of an anomoly. I think it's human nature,and not just a sign of the times to want,or even expect instant,pat answers when something new comes along,however,I think that deliberate peddling forward,no matter how seemingly slow,is ALWAYS better than any amount of "backpeddling".in regards to the naming of combinant mutations, I've always thought that they should be geared more towards describing the genetics involved.(For example,I never particularly thought "sunglow" was very appropriate,the term "hybino",used in conjunction with the hypo/albino Honduran milksnakes,makes much more sense to me,but, hey,it wasn't up to me & what's done is done! *lol*) I enjoy reading your input on the situation,and wish you much success in all your projects & endeavors!

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Hey there. Long time no chat. Thanks for the Correction. You are right. I meant Hypo/Albino which is SUNGLOW. It was late at night, and I didn't go back and read it. I'm long winded. lol

Anyway, I do agree with your post. I think most people can read through marketing ploys, but I think it is very hard to read through many of the names of bloodlines that people can't explain how they work, and that is where it gets complicated.

Jeremy

(On the long winded thing )...I probably would've dumped this bloodline thing a long time ago,and the unpresidented steps I've had to take with it...but,"it" just keeps knockin' my socks off & then right back on again! If I had to "name" every single "look" I've seen so far,I'd have a list as long as my arm! (I just think it would get ridiculous after 5,or so? )
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to have a Corn Snake breeder in the Boa world. Here is his quoted text in response to a post I made earlier.

.. for that reason. It seems that the naming process is quick and simple.

Take care...
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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.BoaConstrictorMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

I saw this sometime later,and it wasn't something I was aware of.If I'm not mistaken the name was coined prior to the actual production,(in cornsnakes) definately prior to seeing how they would look at maturity,it was one of those things,like the "blizzard" that was born in theory first...I had hoped at one time the hypo/albino boas would be called "hybino" which is much easier for newcomers to the hobby to understand,and a little more straightforward,since there is no "sunglow gene".
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in what the protocol is as well. Tracy, I would love to hear your opinion on this situation. Any information would be great. I'm sure none of the other "Big Breeders" want to take sides here, but it would be very helpful for some insight in this situation. I keep reading things like ego, petty, and things like this. I don't see that way at all. I think there needs to be a healthy, respectful debate on this situation. Someone, either Mark or Justin deserves full credit for producing the first hypo snow. One day a book will be written about boa morphs, who should get credit?
Michael Burton