Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Blacktail & Diamonback. The blacktail is hand tame and won't rattle, but the other is a striking machine.

I hope you realize that by posting the pic of you handling the atrox, this will get you a lot of well deserved critisism on this forum! We practise safety procedures and use the proper equipment when dealing with venomous snakes. We do not needless handle or pick them up. Being a respocncible hot keeper is what we are all about and would be happy to assist you in proper handling techniques WHEN NECASSARY. All you are lacking in the picture is a beer to fit into the demographic of the common snake bite victim!
That's assuming you are in your early twenties. I hope you get the idea sooner than later.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Dear Darwin Award candidate:

There is no such thing a as "Tame" snake, just one that has not bitten you yet. If that Atrox bites you in your finger or hand you could just about be assured, if you are lucky enough to keep the hand at all, it will never be the same. Your pocket book will also be seriously drained to the tune of 40K to 60K dollars. Check out some of these pictures and see what a snakebite looks like.

Do all of the safe keepers on this and the other sites a favor, Get rid of the Rattlesnakes before you give the media something else to put down or hobby.

By the way, I support everything Tim said before me...

Al
Snakebite photo's

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Confidence is what you feel before you comprehend the situation.

As soon as I seen the last picture of him with whatever hold that was on that rattlesnake, I knew what the next two posts were going to be like. I agree with the both of you as well. This ought to be a long, flaming topic.

Personally, no self respecting atrox would allow himself to be held that way. Keep in mind that proper body restraint is just as important as proper head restraint. Neither are being done. I would guess that that atrox has been in the sun being photographed for an awfully long time as it looks more like a dead atrox (or close to) than a live one. That snake if he were feeling well would have yanked his head free no problem...anyone that has held one knows that.

Properly held, no snake needs your eyes focused on it. When I pick a snake up, I can guarantee you that after I have it, it is not biting me I(of course, until I go to release it).

I also wonder if those snakes are being kept in the storage rooms behind him, hope not.

As far as Al's hold..It looks a little tight and different than my grip...but it does not show any dangerous behavior. For him or the RBBS. However, the atrox and guy are both in danger.

I can't tell if you are friends with the guy in the picture and defending him or if you are just busting Al's nuts, cause you don't like the way he jumps on people sometimes.
Personally, I'm glad he does. If someones skin is to thin to take some serious criticism than they should find something else to do.
When I started I was getting smacked with a snake hook everytime I did something dumb.

Either way the guy needs a mentor or else find something else to do on his b-day.
I love the pissing contests on this forum
Regards,

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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

Actually the grip is due to him struggling. I had a normal 2 finger grip on him until he squirmed upside down. Anyways I had to go get my camera out of storage, not the snake- he was just in the car with me.

>>I had a normal 2 finger grip on him until he squirmed upside down.

I'm not sure if that makes me feel any better... That not only means your grip wasn't secure, but the only way I can see transitioning from a "normal" grip to that one involves his head passing between your fingers and past your palm while you have very little control over it.

Please, consider investing in some hooks and keeping your hands away from the snake. Two good ones will cost you about what 15 minutes in ICU would cost (just the room, not counting other minor things like AV and doctors).

alot of rattles on the WDB-how old is it? was it a wild caught? Hope you do not get bit & I am sure you knew that pic was going to wake up the critics.
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norcalsnakemaster@comcast.net

Jerry: There are some guys on this board who have safely worked with venomous snakes since before the guy in the picture was born. There are even some who have been doing so since before the guy's father was born. With that kind of experience, what are they supposed to do...sit back, after seeing an obvious screw-up in the making & say nothing? Call them critics if you will, but I see it as a bunch of guys with a two-fold purpose; one being to keep the knuckle head in the picture from getting tagged, the other being to keep this hobby alive.

~~Greg~~

Very well said Greg!

Randal

Everyone "went-off" on him without a comment on the snake. In the thead last month "ok, ok,ok" I think that hit it on the head-every one critizes on the subjects without addressing the point to the post. If a novice post for the first time they get "beat up" & never want to post again. Yes, I think alot of people are critical on KS forums. Yes, I agree that you shouldn't free handle "hots". However, before jumping down on them & condeming them, maybe find out there side of why they are holding or doing whatever they are doing. Alot of you have great knowlegde & can help educate the novice herper, but if you just "attack" them everytime they post-do you think they will care about anything you say after that???
Greg, I agree with you on the "2-fold" of the forum, but if you turn them off they will never listen to your advise! it has been said, "No one cares about how much you know until they know how much you care"
I have alot of respect for what alot of you have done in the hobby but if you scare those away where are they going to get there infomation...The Crocidile Hunter?
my 2 cents
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norcalsnakemaster@comcast.net

Jerry,
I did offer up the following in my first post.

"Being a responcible hot keeper is what we are all about and would be happy to assist you in proper handling techniques WHEN NECASSARY."
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

You did , your right, but then you stated that all that was missing was a beer. I am just saying that it is predictable that when someone does something "foolish" on the forum that everyone has to jump on it. Some of the deleted post had name calling. Alot of people I know do not even post on KS because of the way some respond. If it would of just stopped with your reply & everyone didn't jump on the bandwagon I think he would of got the point. Believe me when I say I respect you Tim, but we cannot educate the novice if we scare them away. Unless what is wanted, is to just keep it down to the same 8 or so guys on here that do most of the posting.
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norcalsnakemaster@comcast.net

These pics should be deleted right away. We have an irresponsible person keeping venomous snakes....stupidity at its best - I just feel very sorry for these animals. And folks wonder why I have a hard time promoting the private ownership of venomous herps (but I do support it despite these reckless and unqualified folks).

>>Blacktail & Diamonback. The blacktail is hand tame and won't rattle, but the other is a striking machine.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Well, to be fair, all pics of people touching hots should be removed from all forums.

Shane
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Lifelist

To be fair to who? Him? He has an awful grip and bad technique, so now they should delete all posted pics of people pinning snakes? I agree many shouldn't, but what's wrong with a professional milker posting a pic of himself/herself properly restraining a snake and getting a shot of it's fangs and milking the snake? To me, it's informative, and may dissuade beginner's from pinning when they see a pic of just how large certain snakes fangs are. It is much different from some yahoo who wants to take and post a pic of how cool they look holding a snake like that. To me, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, there is no reason to pin a snake, and it ranks up there with freehandling as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, for those out there who don't know, thats Tim in the picture!
Thought I'd share that with you. (thats NOT one of his designer atrox however)!

hahahahhahahahhahahahhahaha!

where you will be at the end of June! LOL
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

I'm out-classed......I'll leave the topic of venomous ownership to the people who destroy it on their own terms. No worries on my part......I can still find them in the field. I'll vote against venomous ownership in the future.
Watch your back!
Shane
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Lifelist

Or maybe a nap? Talk about a temper tantrum.

Shane
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Lifelist

Shane, there are responsible and irresponsible ways to properly "handle" a snake; the picture in the original post showed extraordinarily bad technique from a person who is obviously not knowledgeable about reptiles much less rattlesnakes and equally showed no regard for the safety of himself or the animal (I'm personally more concerned about that snake in the picture!). That's besides the fact that this amateur has no business keeping or handling any hot herp. That was just my original take and I am still in shock the pic hasn't been taken off yet.

>>Shane
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>>Lifelist
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob, my point was that there is really no need to post pics of direct contact with hots on these forums. I haven't seen you do it. Personally, while I choose to not keep hots at this point in time, I'm still someone who beleives in responsible private ownership. In the future, if my wife is willing, I would like to keep lepidus, miliarius, and okinavensis. So, to a small degree, I have a vested interest.
When you have an experienced hot keeper, such as Al, posting pics of holding a RBB in the field, and pinning a little Echis with his hand for feeding.....there's no reason for it! It promotes the image, unnecessarily. Of course there will almost certainly be a need for handling a hot in a captive environment.....what's the point in posting pics?
I find it hilarious that the unofficial forum police here see that it's OK for some people to post pics of handling hots, while it's a no-no for others to do so. If ks saw it my way, there would be no pics of touching hots, period. Now I'm sure Al's a great guy, but for someone who wants to promote the private ownership of hots, he's not doing a good job via the pics. I'm sure you're a great guy, but posting plugs for someone who freehandles Ophiophagus isn't helping the private ownership issue either.
I'm off the soapbox now.
Shane

P.S. I could care less what happens to the kid holding the atrox.....he'll get what he deserves.
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Lifelist

"P.S. I could care less what happens to the kid holding the atrox.....he'll get what he deserves."

IMHO that is the main problem. Even though we could care less what he does or what happens to him while he does that, his actions and the ramifications of his actions affect us all.

I have 0, Zero, None, Nada venomous snakes, but everytime the news plays a story that someone got bite by a 'hot' I hear none stop, "you shouldn't have those", "what happens if your kids get bite?!", etc...

Stupidity, no matter where it is effects us all. That is where the problem is. And as far as other pictures of 'hots', proper handling should be shown, you want to lessen the fear of snakes by showing that with the proper training they are not these horrible monsters waiting to attack your kids when they step outside. As far as who judges right and wrong handling, it ain't me, but there are plenty of others qualified to desern that.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

And as far as other pictures of 'hots', proper handling should be shown, you want to lessen the fear of snakes by showing that with the proper training they are not these horrible monsters waiting to attack your kids when they step outside.

Yeah, unfortunately, a "proper" grip requires proper restraint in the first place. I have a feeling that people don't come to this forum to assuage their fear of serpents.
Shane
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Lifelist

A quick queston on your life list, is this an "in situ" life list? If so you have some unusual african/middle eastern sighting yet missed some of the most common which should have been on the runway when you landed...

Yes, it's an "in situ" lifelist. I've never landed in Africa. The two middle east herps that I could positively ID are microlepis and jayakari, in Kuwait. The group of microlepis were a usual sight, not on the runway, but on the taxiway. I wasn't able to do much herping. Stuff like concertina wire and unexploded land mines kept me on the beaten path.
Shane
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Lifelist

that all the experienced people displaying the correct way of handling, (and including that it's done only when absolutely necessary) should only do so outside of kingsnake.com and leave this forum for the yahoos to inbreed their collective ignorance?

Sounds like crap to me

Ian