Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I was at an old friend's house and he had this dumeril's boa that he got from somewhere and wasn't taking good care of it. in fact, he was taking very bad care of it and i couldnt' leave it there, so i took it.

i got the snake and he was freezing and very very frisky. every time i touched it, it would move around as if trying to escape. it was also incredibly weak and skinny. it had lots of loose skin along its whole body but especially around the neck/head area.

i immediatly took the snake to the local pet store to get some basic info on taking care of it and to start feeding it (someting which i'm sure he hadn't had in a while, or not regularly at least). we fed it two rat pups which it ate, slowly but surely (took about an hour or so for both).

The people at the store told me that according to its size, its probably around 9-10 months old.

the snake is still really skinny (i think, i haven't really seen any other dumeril's ever, and it still has a lot of extra skin). also every time i touch the snake, not hold but touch (touch it in the cage, try to take it, out, touch it outside of the cage, try to put it back in) it gets still gets really frisky and moves around wildly. Usually when I’m holding it, its pretty calm. I hold it every 2-3 days or so to make sure its ok, but I get the feeling maybe its doing in defense or something.

Since the pet store three weeks ago, i've fed it every weekend (2 rat pups each time). each time it ate 2 rat pups. the only thing is that when the snake eats, it makes the first bite at the pray and only after a delay make an attempt at coiling around it. Apparently his coils are pretty weak because sometimes after 10 minutes or so I’ll still see the rat’s leg moving (not to mention the screeching it makes for the first few minutes). But eventually it eats everything (sometimes tail first).

Right now the snake is in a 20g long on aspen with a 75 W red lamp over its hide spot. During the first few weeks, the snake would hang out under its hide spot (under the heat) in a coil. Then it started digging in the aspen under the hide spot (with his head sticking out). Now he spends most of his time burrowed in the aspen on the other side of the cage (the cold side).

I also have a few questions…

-Is 2 pups a week every week ok for a snake like this ok?

-At the store they said to feed him rat pups cause he will eventually eat adult rats and better to get him used to the smell early. I have a mouse colony, is it ok to feed him an adult mouse every once in a while instead of two rat pups?
-How often should he be defecating?
-How often should he be shedding? Is it a similar process to say a ball python (what I’m familiar with) with the cloudy eyes, pink belly, etc.
-What is the ideal set up in terms of tank size/dimensions, heat sources, humidity, etc.?

I really don’t know very much about the snake in terms of care and would greatly appreciate some advice/tips. If someone who knows about this could read what I wrote and tell me if I should be doing something differently.

Thank you very much!

Omer

How big is it? Shedding is the same as with balls (cloudy eyes and pinkish belly). Dumeril's don't like it quite as warm as balls do, so make sure there is a hide box on the hot side and the cold side. It sounds like you are on the right track going to the pet shop and asking for help. www.dumerils.com has a good caresheet if you need one You can feed it mice, but you do run the risk of having a hard transition from mice to rats later on. Most snakes convert easily...although I had a male ball who should have been eating medium rats taking 4-5 mice at a time because he refused rats for several months! I am fairly new to the dumerils world myself, so I hope I helped!
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4.11 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball python
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Rosy boa
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.1 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

yeah thanks. the snake is about 2-3 feet...

at the pet store they told me to keep the hot spot at around 90 and not to put a heat pad on the other (75w red bulb on 20g tank). thats what i've got going now. you think thats too hot?

i found that dumerils.com is a bit unspecific.

WOW! Man, I hope you are able to pull this guy through! Kudos to you for giving it a go! Okay, my opinion......take it slow! If he's as thin as you describe, I wouldn't rush to get him back up to size. If what your feeding him makes a SMALL lump immediately after feeding, he should be good. Make sure he always has plenty of fresh water, he sounds like he was pretty dehydrated too. Sheds are going to be potentially once every couple months as he progresses I'd imagine, you may get a couple that are real close together with such a dramatic change of husbandry(care!). General husbandry is pretty straight forward. The 90 is on the higher end, but as long as he has a cool side, that's fine. When I temp. check my Dumerils they tend to average 84-86 degrees. I like my background temps. around 78. If you have a good supply of the rats, I'd stick with them as one of the biggest issues some people have with Dumerils is getting them to switch to rats. But, mice at this point would be more than acceptable! I keep my humidity moderate, I'd guess it to be around 50-60 percent on average and I have no shedding issues or resp. issues with my dumerils. Some say 30 percent is good, that's too low IMO, and others go for 80 percent, a bit high IMO. Like the other post stated, sheds are pretty much the same as any other snake. I might have missed a couple of your questions, if so, let me know and I'll try again. There's some good people here, so somebody should be able to step up and help you out anytime you have problems! Best of luck to you and the snake. Take care

Paul

First off thanks to the both of you, I really appreciate the help.

Do you think that the snake's frisky behavior is normal? His alternating sides to burrow in?

Should i not be handling him during this 'recuperation' phase?

how different are dumerils boas than red tailed boas? i read that they are similar, but enough so that a care guide on red tailed boas generally applies to a dumerils?

I was told that Dumeril's are a lot like BCI's, but now that I have experience with both species I tend to believe that there are many more differences than similarities. Here are a few:
*Temperature wise they are a bit different as BCI's tend to enjoy it slightly warmer.
*Respiratory infections tend to be more common in Dumeril's, but both species are relatively hardy and long-lived.
*BCI's are larger snakes who need a larger enclosure, and have more offspring and morphs.
*It is more common for Dumeril's hatchlings to be reluctant feeders and they may need their prey to be scented with lizard. Dumeril's are apparently more likely to feed on other snakes than BCI...although it has been sighted in both species.
*Dumeril's cannot be imported, so they are usually more expensive than BCI.
*Dumeril's are ambush hunters who love to bury themselves before striking wildly!

It is not odd to me that your snake is nervous with you handling. It sounds like he came from a bad situation where he was probably not accostumed to people! I would continue to handle him...he will become more comfortable as time goes by!

Good luck!
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4.11 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball python
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Rosy boa
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.1 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

Just had to address a couple of points-

"*Respiratory infections tend to be more common in Dumeril's, but both species are relatively hardy and long-lived."

I've never had Resp. infections with my Dumerils...knock on wood!

"*It is more common for Dumeril's hatchlings to be reluctant feeders and they may need their prey to be scented with lizard. Dumeril's are apparently more likely to feed on other snakes than BCI...although it has been sighted in both species."

I've never scented to get mine to feed, generally giving them space seems to do the trick, others have used quail, but I don't know anyone having to scent with lizards....but I guess it's possible. I have tried to feed babies chameleons to see the reaction....this would be a potential prey item in Madagscar, there was NO interest at all.

A couple of the others were "market" differences more so than husbandry differences as well, but it's all good. I just had to chime in on those couple of points. Care is pretty similar, and yes a BCI manual is probably "good enough" since Dumerils assumed high temp. does fall within the spectrum of BCI temp. ranges and the humidity levels are similar, as well as potential size and preferred prey items. Exact? NO...Similar? Very! But, I do agree, so long as he's feeding, handling him should do no harm. Keep up the good work, take care

Paul

As for the previous poster
Since we are just about the only posters on this forum I am happy to finally have a conversation..and all in good fun I reply:

*As it states at Dumerils.com "Due to the limited number of these animals that were collected from their natural habitat, along with irresponsibility of reptile breeders, many lines of Dumeril's have become inbred. One of the effects is the advanced susceptibility to respiratory infections."
...I'm not saying every dumerils will get a URI...but they are more likely to have problems than some other species.
*I haven't personally talked with someone who scents with reptiles...so I see your point, but I have read this at several websites. I figured I would put it out there! Some people believe that dumeril's wild diet is more reptilian than mamalian while young and this is why they are more likely to feed on another snake in captivity. All theory though I guess

I'm just glad that my dumeril's are all grown up and doing well! Although, I just picked up 3 PSYCHO ball python hatchlings that break all of the rules! They think that they are rock pythons!

Enjoy!
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4.11 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball python
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Rosy boa
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.1 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

LOL, yeah....not a ton of back and forth conversation in here! I see where you got that from now, but I haven't spoken with other breeders that have had this problem. Fortunately or unfortunately, however one looks at it, Dumerils have been brought into the country both legally and illegally in recent past. Small eye syndrome was also becoming a symptom of inbreeding. Though I only saw one myself in person, I did hear about that from several breeders. I hope you didn't take my other post as any sort of attack, it was just meant for discussion. Which is finally nice to see in here-lol! Take care

Paul

Naw....I did not see it as an attack! I am new to dumeril's, so if I find information that is not correct I'd like to know too! Like I said I just enjoy posting

Take care!
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4.11 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball python
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Rosy boa
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.1 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

yeah, i like to post as well. i just keep doing this thing called "overtime" which tends to make me miss reading the forums. as far as the original poster of this thread, i dont think it really matters if you feed the snake mice or rats, because it's geting fed. didnt sound like it was getting that done previously so i wouldnt start worrying about things like that. just take it one step at a time. as far as burying in the substrate, thats what they do naturally. seems like youre getting the guy started on what seems to be the road to recovery and a long healthy life.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas (normals)
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons (normals)
1.0 Black Blood Python (normal)
1.0 Dumeril's Boa (normal)
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa (normal)

PBM, I'm glad to see that you addressed humidity in the earlier post. I think one of the reasons you have no problems with URIs is because you monitor your humidity levels. I may be new to dumeril's but I have had ball pythons for quite some time. IMO the number one reason for URI is high humidity...the number two reason is low humidity! It is very important to have the right levels. I have a digital reader from wal-mart. People always focus on temperature, but humidity is very important as well!

Have a great night!
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---------
4.11 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball python
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Rosy boa
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.1 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

We had a baby dumerils boa that my girlfriend bought from an unreputable dealer at a reptile show. The snake didn't eat for 7 MONTHS! One day he just started eating and never stopped. Hopefully yours can bounce back as well. From the size I would say 2 pups a week is ok. I would try to get frozen thawed, less dangerous to the snake later if you can get his switched. Other than that and things in the above I would say you are doing pretty good.

I rescued a female Dumeril a few years ago and she is doing fine. My only additional comment has to do with the dehydration issue. I would suggest that it be checked out by a reptile vet because the snake may need fluids injected into it.

My boa always burrows in the CareFresh just as one of the other posters commented. When I first get her out she is quite squirmy, but settles right down.

Since I do rescue I have about 30 snakes and 8 lizards and the number of each constantly changes according to intakes and adoptions.

Mark

P.S. Good luck with your Dumeril

YES, YOU CAN FEED HIM A MOUSE IT IS GOING TO AKE SOME TIME TO RECOVER FROM BEING SKINNY AN ILL THIS WILL END AS LONG AS YOU FEED HIM A LITLE MORE TRY USING A MOUSE THE SIZE OF TWO RAT PUPS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS DONT TRY TO POWER FEED HIM YET WHEN HE GAINS THE WEIGHT HE NEED TO BE AT THEN POWERFEED HIM THEY ARE COOL SNAKES YOU GOT SOMETHING GOOD THERE GOOD LUCK....SNAKE4420

Power feed your Dumerils! Obesity is not a desired aspect of anything, and an overfed Dumerils will easily become obese! Why take an animal on the brink of death back to good health, and then start "power feeding"? Take care

Paul

You sound very caring and loving toward this creature which is a plus for the animal. We have been raising dumerils for over 10 years and basically what you have mentioned sounds like you are on the right track. Rat pups are the best way to go for a baby dum as they usually like to feed when you are not watching them and they are ambush predators so as far as yours hiding under the aspen with his head above substrate, he is most comfortable in this position and he feels more secure. Now as far as offering the mice, I would not even bother specifically due to the health of the snake (weak and malnurished). With a mouse, he will have to fight harder to kill it (unless you are going to offer prekilled) and also the fact that it will be harder to get him onto rats later. Now another mention about heat....under tank heating and overhead nocturnal heating...the young dums do much better with higher heat. They like it in the 90's and especially if you have one with issues, make sure you keep him warm. Good luck, enjoy him cause there is no other boa quite like a dumeril. They actually move their eyes to look at you while keeping their heads still. Watch his eyes when you are investigating him in his habitat, you will see what I am talking about. Take Care.

That's interesting that you keep your young Dumerils at 90 . I only use belly heat(heat tape hooked to Helix), but if my young Dumerils are kept that warm they tend to become extremely nippy, hyper, and generally will only strike at their prey, very seldom actually taking anything. Interesting! Take care

Paul

We have been raising the babies like this for over 10 years and have found that with lower heat, they tend to not want to eat as often and just plain do not seem happy. Never nippy or aggressive towards us or prey at these higher temps. This is just the way we have kept them through the years and will continue to do so since it has proved to be the best for us. Thanks for your post.

Sure, do what works, I wouldn't try to convince you to do anything else. It's just a different reaction than the one I get. As far as time with them, I'm at over 15 years with Dumerils, so I'm definitely not just blowing smoke to stir the pot. It's cool to see different ways of doing things be successful. It proves that there is not just ONE WAY to keeping Dumerils. Take care

Paul

Hi, all -

I have read through this thread, and would like to ask some questions myself.

I am a first-time snake owner, as well, and have a Dumeril's Boa. I purchased her at a reptile show in my local area, and was told by her breeder that she was a docile breed of snake. While at the show and on the way home, she was fine to handle - not aggressive, although rather active.

Since getting her home, I have her in a 20 gallon tank with wood chip bedding. She has shed once in the time that I have had her here (since the end of April). I have had no issues with her eating, and she currently eats full-grown mice. I believe her to be about 5 months old, as I was told she was about three months old at the time I purchased her.

During the first several weeks, my snake would keep herself buried under the substrate, but she currently prefers to spend time in her hidebox or next to her waterbowl - I haven't seen her hiding behavior (which I know is a way that she hunts and also that this is a common behavior for the Dumerils) in several weeks now.

I have found her to be excessively aggressive - she strikes at you and becomes very tense, visibly breathing hard whenever her tank is opened or if there is someone near her tank at all. She has struck at the glass on occasion and I am finding it impossible to handle my snake.

I have some significant concerns regarding keeping her if she is going to be aggressive, and would like to gather some thoughts as to why she would be acting this way. I am going to look into a humidity regulator for her tank - perhaps this is part of the problem. Her tank temps range from the low 90s to the mid 70s.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable with having a snake that will grow to be so large if I am not able to handle her myself. I would like to know if anyone has had similar issues with a Dumerils and any thoughts you have regarding this behavior.

It seems as though she could have been sedated at the show - the change in her temperment was so quick.

Thanks for your help!
~Marisa~