Reptile & Amphibian Forums

All well indeed. My female veiled laid this time 66 eggs or so...got a little lost in the count(!). This time I can see some like 18-20 eggs much smaller and softer than the others and than all the ones from the first (after mating) clutch. So, looks like she might have a mix of fertilized and not fert. eggs in this clutch. I am incubating them all and expect to see the not fertilized eggs to die off in a few days. Now that I have a new clutch I see how the ~3 months old eggs have grown in size...or all the new clucht is not fertilized.

And...yes, she actually got big before laying, I can see it very well now that she is thin like a stick (but eating and basking very good). I must have confused her eggs with her being overweight (I thought she was overweight)...shame on me, a breeder for 14 years (horses, though).

Question for all the breeders and experienced ones in here: what is the minimun number of days that I have to feed her well in order to get her back on her feet but not to produce eggs again? (guess, Lele you are laughing!). I don't want to starve her, but should she be a little underfed? I don't want her to produce all these many eggs. It is going to kill her in few months! she is now barely 2YO.

Thanks,

Chiara
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1.1 Skipper & Sunshine - Veiled Chameleons
1.1 Jimmy & HYdra - Water Dragons
1.0 Trionix - Smooth soft shell turtle
1.0 Apalone - Spiny texas soft shell turtle
0.1 Irish Brook M - Standardbred (retired racehorse)
1.0 Sir Edward - Ragdoll cat, sire
0.3 Shannan, Jalisse, Slick cats
?.? Some fish

I usually feed mine for two or three days well and then cut back to the "non-gravid diet" until I am sure that she is producing eggs. I also keep the females slightly cooler than the males too. I think the combination keeps females from over-producing.

I have had veiled females that don't produce any infertile clutches for up to three years doing this. The last three veiled females that died here were all over 6 years old.

When I mate the female, then I change things a little to promote good healthy fertile egg production. Their clutch sizes are usually around 20 when I do this.

Its a balancing act and takes a little practice...you don't want to starve her but you want to keep her from producing too many eggs.

That is almost exactly what I do. I have found that feeding vegetation helps. Lots of blossoms, some greens, and occationally fruit.

Post-laying, I feed my girls a few insects , 2 times a day, for about a week. Then I cut back to only 2-3 feedings a week, with 2-3 insects per feeding - at most. I fill in with greens and blossoms the other days, so their digestive system is constantly working, and they get the additional vitamins and minerals, without all the protein and fat.

Most of my females had first clutches around 30-40 eggs, and all additional clutches were never more than 37 - usually around 20-30. Also, I never mated my females more than twice a year, and I've never seen an infertile clutch of veiled eggs.

It is utterly amazing how little they actually need to eat in order to survive, maintain weight, and develop eggs. The problem, is that in the wild, they;'re not gettin th efatty, calorie rich feeders they get in captivity - they're eating flies, grasshoppers and crucnhy beetles. Plus they're loaded with worms. And they're active. Their digestive system works best if it's constantly working (vet-done necroscopy in a melleri concluded that the gall bladder was strained by long periods of going without food), so giving some smaller food items, and some plant matter, will prevent liver damage. I like to feed a lot of mealworm beetles, personally.

When they lay fewer eggs, they are much larger eggs, with bigger, stronger babies. also, the females will lay eggs and recover without looking bad at all. After a few of those 50 clutches, they start to come out of the nest looking like they're walking out of their grave instead.

Thank you all for the advices that I will follow. It is amazing how great she is doing. She went to look in the cup for food soon after she climb up from the sand.

Bye, Chiara
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1.1 Skipper & Sunshine - Veiled Chameleons
1.1 Jimmy & HYdra - Water Dragons
1.0 Trionix - Smooth soft shell turtle
1.0 Apalone - Spiny texas soft shell turtle
0.1 Irish Brook M - Standardbred (retired racehorse)
1.0 Sir Edward - Ragdoll cat, sire
0.3 Shannan, Jalisse, Slick cats
?.? Some fish

Dang she really did great. Alot of eggies that girl had to lay make sure shes well supplimented.

Congratulations , I'm happy to read she's back up and basking and all is well and I'm sure you can breath a sigh of relief now LOL
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

PLEASE DO take Eric and k's advice. 66 eggs is an awful lot so you sure don't want her laying more anytime soon - believe me!

Do you weigh her? I found it to be really helpful. Luna's "normal" weight as around 60g. She always gained about 30+ while gravid, but the last time, when her weight was fluctuating like crazy (i have all the records), some of it was "unexplained" fluid build up, she got up to over 120g at one point! She then laid her last clutch in May and died in July Overfeeding her was so hard to even know b/c she would go for several weeks (no exaggeration) with absolutley no food. I think we ALL learned a lot from my little girl. She never laid more than 42 eggs though so be sure to keep Sunshine on her treadmill to stay slim and in shape

Having the necropsy done was worth the $$ just to know what happened. Knowing that something burst pretty much said there was a lot of excess pressure somewhere and, Dr. G and I agreed, it was probably from the constant state of being gravid. She was developing again when she died - would have been her 5th clutch at just over 2 years old.

Sorry to get so morbid with your positive news, I just would really hate to see someone (and cham!) go thru what Luna did if it can be avoided.

lele

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet