Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am hoping you all might be able to give me some feedback. From what I have been reading, rattlesnakes (at least timber rattlesnakes) use scent trails to find their way to and from their wintering dens to their feeding areas, and if relocated, will usually fare poorly because they will spend their time trying to find the scent trail again instead of trying to find suitable shelter for hibernation. If this is the case, isn't relocation pretty much a death sentence for these animals? Also, is this problem unique to timbers? to all rattlesnakes? to pitvipers in general?

I would like your opinions on this topic please. Thank you in advance.

I'd like to join amadeus in this request. It seems "studies have shown" that relocating native hots is the "kiss of death" for them. If anyone can indentify the specific research being used here to discourage relocation? Thanks for any assistance you may be able offer.

"A note about relocating rattlesnakes:
These snakes make their way to their preferred feeding areas each year by following scent trails, and they return to their specific den sites in the same way. A timber rattlesnake uses the same, communal den every winter. If a snake is moved to another location and cannot find one of its trails to follow back to its den, it will be unable to hibernate and so will freeze to death."

This is a quote from : http://www.lastgreatplaces.org/berkshire/issues/art6596.html

My concern is, are we unknowingly contributing to their demise when are we're doing is trying to help? And if so, what other options are there?

oops, meant to say "When ALL we're trying to do is help."

Understood and thank you for that reference. The author of those words apparently has some data based on a field study done. Or not; I'll pursue it some. But in either event, it begs the question(s) asked or implied in your first post: only timbers?, only rattlesnakes?, only in areas where denning occours?, etc.
I recall some TV doccumentary(Discovery, I think) where Animal Control/ Tucson Fire rolls to a residence to rescue an atrox only to then free it immediately over a 4 ft fence separating the backyard from undisturbed desert habitat. The rationel was that "studies have shown" that relocated (rattlesnakes) always die. I am not aware of communal denning by C.atrox in the lower sonoran.

http://coloherp.org/cb-news/Vol-31/cbn-0410/RoamHome.php

Good article on the subject, with some field studies done with radio transmitters to track the relocated animals. However, while stating that there is higher mortality associated with relocated snakes, it doesn't give any hard numbers. Going to look up Erika Nowak on the net. She's a wildlife biologist with the USGS, and apparently has done quite abit of research on this subject. If there seems to be consistent citing of higher mortality among relocated rattlesnakes, then some re-thinking on addressing the issue of rescue/relocation of "nuisance" (I use the word factitiously) snakes needs to commence.

Good. Let us know what you find. The previous reference likely comes from a leaflet from the Massachusetts Div. of Fisheries & Wildlfe/ and the University there on the prohibition of trans-locating wildlife.
I reviewed what cites Campbell & Lamar amassed on activity, range, conservation, etc on rattlesnakes and found nothing directly on point.
I think we agree though, the ultimate question is: does relocating a healthy venomous snake to a safer suitable piece of habitat to save it make good sense? And the question in Massachusetts is somewhat moot...its against the law apparently.
And a strict interpretation of the applicable code in California may also prohibit the option.

I remember the idea of death among relocated individuals was discussed years ago regarding tortoises. The theory was that relocating the animal exposed them to a different set of "bugs" than the ones for which they had developed resistance.

You're right. I suspect the problem of the introduction of respiratory pathogens to the wild population of desert tortoses from former captives set free, was the thinking in large part of the Cali lawmakers when they wrote-in the "release prohibition" in the Fish & Game Code. Ive no quarrel with the solution to that problem, especially inasmuch as the same folks have developed a statewide rescue and adoption plan for those individuals that find their way into suburbia.
There remains a bias against rattlesnkes however. No season, no limit, no restriction on method of take...and certainly no rescue strategy.

I really don't think the jury is back on this yet. It does make sense that for communal hibernating rattlesnakes that there could be a problem, however I suspect they can also find trail of others and follow them to a new hibernaculum. I also think it is logical that they lose their prefered hunting spots and protected areas, but I still think they have a lot of instinct controlling their behaviors and that some can find both prey and hide spots without any previous history of them. This would be a great study to do with canebrakes or copperheads or cottonmouths that usually hibernate singly in the south. I would expect higher mortality in translocated snakes---no doubt, but when the alternative is immediate death, I still believe some will survive and maybe even flourish!

I don't know. Real evidence of this " doomed to die " by relocating species would be great especially on atrox of the mass numbers released after the rattlesnake roundups. Of course I'm not saying to be done in the fall but in the spring when these events happen. I know of several individuals that did a non-scientific and non-academic relocating scenario of the Waurika and Magnum Oklahoma roundups by clipping scales and was re-collected a year later. I don't remember if i had mentioned this before but we have a colony of atrox where they shouldn't be in central west Kansas that is believed to have been released for past several years at different times and they seem to be fine and " flourishing ".
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/nhc/sched_2006.html#rattlesnakes

Dr. Bill Brown has done some work on this subject, and the results are surprising! The link above is for the Northeast Natural History Conference, in case anyone in the Northeast is interested in attending.

MH
Conference Schedule

Damn...Great topic & speaker...I hate to miss that one.

Al
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Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

I'll have to dig it up, but either in a paper or a talk there was one study that transplanted a group of captive born horridus to the wild. They were tagged and had transmitters. In this study almost all (I believe the number was 8 out of 10) survived to 3 feet or larger.)

I always try to release as close as possible to the capture site, but in a couple of instances where this wasn't possible, I always released the animal into a water source, so it at least had a reference point of where to return for water.

I personally think that releasing into unfamiliar territory is a disadvantage for the snake, but not necessarily a 'kiss of death.'

Hope this helps, and I'd love to hear some other opinions.

Chad Minter
Author
Venomous Snakes of the Southeast
http://www.envenomated.com
http://www.envenomated.com

True, it can be the death a a snake to relocate, but sometimes it can be the death not to. In Hercules, CA where once was a rattlesnake haven, now sits a community of thousands of homes. When the fire department is called out on a snake, they do 1 of 2 things. 1) if it is non-venomous-they relocate it away from the home 2)if it is a rattlesnake-they kill it on the spot.
So leaving the snake in the same spot can be its death also.
Another problem is that if the snake has any parasites, that if released somewhere else, can transmit those parasites to a locality where there were not @ already & can kill off the population that exist there already. So they are damed if you do & damed if you don't!
I will have to admit that I have relocated rattlesnakes before-never without keeping for a time to make sure it was in good health. I released where I knew populations existed & away from our housing tracks. There were some that I put fingernail polish on a couple of the rattles. Although not that scientific, It did excite me to find ones that I released 2 years later hanging out with other rattlers on the same hillside. I hope CA F&G would open up the trade to find responsible homes for the ones that are being killed because we have moved into there territory. Maybe more education to those that live in rattlesnake territory so they can co-exsit

BTW-on an episode of "venom ER" Dr. Shawn relocated one caught in a neighbors yard-maybe on the next chat we can get his imput
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norcalsnakemaster@comcast.net