Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 2 baby Eastern box (under a year). They appear healthy, eat well & are active. Today when I picked them up I noticed each has kindof a soft shell, both the top & bottom yeild a bit to gentle pressure from my fingernail. Is this normal?
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

It's a subjective thing. A slight amount of "softness" is normal with young turtles, but there's a fine line between normal and excessive. The critical question is, do you have them under UVA/UVB lighting and are they given any calcium supplements? If not, it's almost guaranteed that their shells are too soft.

I don't have them under UVA/UVB, but take them out for natural sunlight at least once a week. I used to have them under UVA/UVB lights but moved their enclosure & realized they spent all their time under cover during the day anyway. I supplement every feeding with Sandfire Box Turtle Dust.

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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

Great! In that case, it sounds like your talking about the normal softness of the shell. With most young turtles, you can depress the shell with gentle pressure. Sometimes, you can even make their little heads, arms, and legs move by pressing the shell. However, don't try this at home .

Thank you. I believed some softness was normal with babies, but wanted to double check.

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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

Thanks for posting the photos! They're very pretty turtle photos.
I've always heard & read that the shell doesn't start to really harden up until they are at least 1 year old. I hope that's all it is, softness because they're babies.
Good luck with them!
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PHRatz

Thanks. I especially love the first pic, it's one of my best critter pics The first is Yurtle, the second is Squirtle the Tiny Turtle. Yurtle is a better eater & has quickly grown larger than Squirtle. They're so different! I just love them!
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

Are their shells soft (squishy) or are they pliable (yield slightly with pressure)?
Young turtles' shells don't become hard for months after hatching, so pliable is pretty normal for box turtles that are less than a year old.

I know what you mean about them being different. None of mine behave exactly the same way, they all have different food preferences too.
I'm always surprised when I meet people who think that they're nothing but moving rocks. How could anyone think that?
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PHRatz

Im sorry to say but i beleive your turtles may have a vitamin defisiancey (sorry about spelling)you see ive lost several young painted turtles to this. id call a vet soon.

Gary Shade
MIchigan

They are pliable, not squishy. I'm certain they don't have a vitamin deficiency as I supplement every feeding with box turtle dust.

They are so different from each other, PHRatz! They definately have their own preferences for food, water, hide spots, everything. I can easily tell them apart, even when they were the same size & looked "the same" to other people.
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

“Today when I picked them up I noticed each has kind of a soft shell, both the top & bottom yeild a bit to gentle pressure from my fingernail.
I don't have them under UVA/UVB, but take them out for natural sunlight at least once a week. I used to have them under UVA/UVB lights but moved their enclosure & realized they spent all their time under cover during the day anyway. I supplement every feeding with Sandfire Box Turtle Dust.”

I realize this point may already have reached closure. However the ambiguity of much terminology and the strong possibility of misunderstanding the calcium / phosphorous relationship merits concern.

Soft squishy shells? Pliable under pressure? These can mean many different degrees of shell hardness. To the individual that presses hard or to the individual that presses softer, and fifty degrees in between; these well meaning descriptions can be misleading especially to one who is asking and inexperienced.
Also if your young boxie does have a soft shell; pressing frequently is very risky during this vunerable time.

It is important to know when answering this question the age of your boxies more precisely ( in months). I realize you stated ....Under a year. But that leaves much to speculation. A boxie at four months or even six months will have a very different shell density when compared to a boxie of nine, ten or eleven months.

* Approaching one year of age; a boxie‘s shell should be unquestionably solid. In regards to the amount of natural light; once or twice a week is far below it’s needs of daily exposure to UVB / UVA light especially at such a crucial growth period. Comparing the light it would be exposed to in the wild; even under brush, and cloudy days; is 30 times more than the common 5% UVB artificial light.

* All calcium dust and reptile vitamin dust is not the same. *
You want to try and use a powder that is very high in calcium to the ratio of phosphorus. Using a powder that contains both in boxies will lock up the available calcium due to the high amount of phosphorous in a captive boxie’s diet. Crickets, and mealworms for example are very high in phosphorus. Understanding the balance is the key...

*Calcium is but one link in a Boxies health. The other two elements are Vitamin D3 acquired from Ultraviolet B light, and Phosphorus. An imbalance in the link will cause :

- Too much D3, calcium, or phosphorus**Hypercalcemia.

-A lack of D3, calcium, or phosphorus****Hypocalcemia.

-So too much phosphorus can throw the balance off as well as too little D3, or too little access to Ultra B wavelengths.

At the very least; I suggest increasing the amount of natural light.

*** While your boxie may be avoiding your artificial light; there are reasons causing this reaction. Already failing to reply with brevity; I will respond if asked via a separate email.

I absolutely loved your pics. Those are some of the BEST!

Ric

Male Ornate

Thank you for that thorough & well-thought-out response. My boxies came from someone who had "a lot" of them- more than 50 & whose regular distributer had fallen through. So I don't have a hatch date or any of the good info I like to have on my animals. By my best guess they hatched around August of 2005.
By soft I mean that when I press (gently), the entire shell yeilds or presses down a bit. When I first got them, each had a few small flakey spots on the bottom of the shells- areas that could be gently scraped off. I sure didn't like that! They both appear to be free of these now.
My understanding of the research on UV is that we don't really know the minimum requirement for most animals, including herps. I can certainly provide them artificial UV again- better safe than sorry.
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

USE A VITAMIN D3 LIGHT THEY MUST HAVE THIS IN ORDER FOR THIER SHELLS TO HARDEN SOFT SHELLS INTURTLES IS A SIGN OF THEM CLOSE TO DYING PLEAS REVERSE THIS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE ALSO US CALICUM POWDER IN THIER FOOD WITH VITAMINDD3 REPCAL MAKES THE BEST ALSO FEED THEM BANANAS THEY LOVE THEM AND ROMAINE LETTUCE IN THIER DIET ALSO MEAT RAW HAMBURGER OR CHOPPED UP HOT DOG WILL DO I HOPE EVERYTHING GOES OK GOOD LUCK...SNAKE4420

Raw hamburger or chopped up hotdog are EXTREMELY poor choices for box turtle food, due to high fat content (burger), and high level of preservatives/low nutritional value (hot dog).

Regrding the food examples...

I agree with Steph.. The foods mentioned are foods to be AVOIDED with the exception of bananas...and Romaine Lettuce.
Ric

What is that super cute baby!?
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

The photo of the hatchling is a Florida Boxie, T.c. bauri.

She is from a line I have been working with for 18 years.
In a short time she will look very similar to the young juvi bauri pictured below.
Thanks,
Ric

>>The photo of the hatchling is a Florida Boxie, T.c. bauri.
>>
>>She is from a line I have been working with for 18 years.
>>In a short time she will look very similar to the young juvi bauri pictured below.
>>Thanks,
>> Ric
>>

Oh my gosh that pattern is just beautiful. I don't think I've ever seen a box as beautiful as that one!
Thanks for sharing the photos!
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PHRatz

Truly gorgeous! Thanks for sharing.
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
0.1.1 Crested Geckos Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
0.0.2 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle & Yurtle
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.3 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena