Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The Doctor said it's never been done before, but they've done it to humans and cats so why not a monitor? If it would save it's life? There would have to be a donor with the right bloodtype, of course, and that wont be easy to find. But surely there is a reptile specialist out there who is willing to try. And the owner is willing to pay for it, so Why not?

Hey I'm currently in school to become a vet for exotics. And although yes they do kiney transplants on Humans, and very very very few on cats, transplants are years away from reptiles. Mainly due to two reasons, 1.) transplants are still very experimental in humans let alone in the animal world. and 2.) Reptile surgeries is still in their infincy. Maybe down the line when they get basic reptile surgeries down like that in dogs and cats then transplants might be fesable. Even if so it would set an owner back more then most vets see as practical.

But yes its true when money is invloved, anything is possible somehow. But it most likly wouldn't help and the reptile would be on meds and check ups for the rest of their life, its almost like letting the animal pass away peacefully is better then putting them through years or months of pain. so ya thats just my 2 cents on the topic, sorry.
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Leo Gex
1.3 noramls or hi-yellows
1.0 Giant normal phase het for temper albino
0.2 Giant temper albino
0.2 Temper albinos
1.0 Tangerine Temper albino
0.1 super-hypo Tangerine carrot tail/head
0.1 hypo and baldy Tangerine
0:1 Blizzared
1:0 patternless
0.1 jungle rainwater albino
Others:
1 snapping turtle
1 Giant plated lizard
1:1 dogs
and 2:0 chinchillas

I have to agree that to put him down is preferable to living a life on meds. I guess it would just be prolonging the agony. This all breaks my heart.

Well.. It doesn't matter any more. He passed away this morning. May he rest in peace.

You have my sincere condolences. I'm very sorry for your loss.

i thought of that the other day, we do it all the time in dogs, and i wondered if it had ever been done in any herps and if it worked! my other thought was how bad it would have to be, burmation is natural to them so shutting down in a shock situation may be easier for them then a warm blooded creature, just the things i think of when i cant sleep at 3 am...
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hanging out under heat lights burns up my brain cells!!

Blood transfusions have been done in bearded dragons. I also had a donor prepped and ready while my corn snake was in surgery to have a mass removed. Fortunately it wasn't necessary.

My condolences for the loss of your monitor, it would not have been a good candidate for a transplant if it was that sick.

Take care,
Ian

While compared to human or cat surgery, cutting reptiles is still "new", but I wouldn't say it's in infancy. With experience, anesthesia has proven as safe, or safer than the average mammilian scenerio. The biggest challenge for such a case is the loads of off-label drugs necessary. While baytril, panacur, and all the other commonly used drugs are also off-label, anti-rejection drugs have very little herp-related data on them... basically, an educated guess by the veterinarian. So, yes the risk is much higher, but cost aside, why wouldn't you want to give it a shot? There are a multitude of ways to control pain with reptiles and other ways to reduce stress. If the monitor is a good candidate, I say go for it.

Of course the whole veterinary field will benefit from a well documented try.

Ian

But there are no normally available vets that have the equipment and tools to perform a kidney transplant. I am sure there is a vet school or uni that could, but they don't. The reason is, there is no need. Sad but true, the cost of the operation outweights the value of the monitor by thousands of times.

One day, when the world is down to its last goanna, maybe it will be done. Your right, the knowledge is available, just not realistic.

Also, as nice and caring as these folks want to be. The intent would change when they are told the cost would be $500,000 and there is no insurance. No cheers here.

You'd be amazed how universities can come up with money for the oddest things. Grants are also available for ground-breaking medicine. While I've never pursued anything like this, I can think of a few vet colleges that might be up for the task (U of Georgia, U of FLA, perhaps U of Colorado). You are right that a regular public veterinarian won't have the facilities for such a procedure. Cost is always an issue, but I doubt a teaching facility would charge anything approaching the numbers you're suggesting. Their doctors are paid the same whether they are in surgery or not.

Ian

Its not that they could not do these things, monitors are so much tougher then humans, its should be far easier. Its that they don't do these things. The reason was already mentioned. There is no need.

You seem to live in the world of theory. In theory these operations could occur. In theory, these vet schools could do this. Yes I agree, in theory they could. But one simple thing interferes with our, in theories. That thing is reality. In reality they don't do these things. The reason is no one is going to pay them to do such thinks. So the reality, they will practice the procedures that will be paid for.

The reality is, none of us that come to this board is going to have someone do a blood transfusion or kidny transplant. So in reality, its not done. Sir, that is the reality.

Lastly, a kidney transplant is also not going to help the monitors in 99% of the cases. As its not a kidney problem in the first place. The kidneys fail, from a complete biological failure. They are just the first to go. So new kidneys are not going to save the individual.

I would hope that if you found someplace that was willing or had the expertise to do a kidney transplant, that they also had the expertise to explain to you, that a new kidney would not be of benefit. I would hope they understood that kidney failure was the product of chronic longtern poor husbandry/support. Cheers

You are so right! We had become the new owners of Bonkers, we had him for 4 weeks, if that. The doctor at UC Davis said that it wasn't our fault, that it was the previous owner's. Because they had raised him where the temp was only household temps, cause he was a free roaming pet in the house. And that he suffered dehydration due to short soakings in a bathtub 2 or 3 times a week. This was for his entire life of 4.5 years. This was thru ignorance, not intention. They didn't know that they were blowing it. They loved him. Unfortunatly, they had to give him up, so they found us. Also unfortunatly, we expedited his demise by all of a sudden putting him in a proper environment, where the temp was higher and he had a swimming tank of his own. The raised temps made the kidneys try to work even harder to repair and regulate the body and they just gave out. A lot sooner than if he had stayed in his cooler environment. He won our hearts over so fast, We are so heartbroken over losing him. I cry when I type this. Here is a picture of our lost love.

Your right, a house offers very little to support the needs of a monitor. Except space, but its useless space.

A house generally supports cronic dehydration, as houses are normally very dry, due to heating and airconditioning. Also, if houses offered the humidity needs of monitors, you would not live there. Toooooo hot, tooooo humid. For that Salvator, just think the tropics, without airconditioned houses and cars.

You mentioned soaking. Soaking is not a cure for dehydration, Stopping dehydration is a cure. That is, monitors need to not dehydrate. Losing moisture thru the skin, is a design for humans, not lizards. Its to be prevented not patched.

So in case you get another monitor, think about how to prevent dehydration, not patch it. Again, sorry for your loss.

we didn't know that he lived like that. We just assumed that he'd been living in the proper atmosphere. We knew he had freedom of the house, but we thought he had his own proper habitat too. So we thought that we were giving him a good home. And we were! Just too late in his life, (we didn't know). Our facilities are probably better than most where the concerns of the animal are met. Our monitors all have their own swim tanks, which are changed almost every day, the temps are as regulated as is required by the animals, etc. etc. I didn't care for that remark about doing a patch job.

hahahahahahahaha this stuff is always fun. Did you come here for a pat on the back or hopefully(rare but could happen) continue to learn and maybe gain a better understanding, so next time you may prevent what you just experienced.

While I clearly understood what you mentioned, the monitors past history. Its also clear kidney damage is most commonly caused by longterm problems. No one and not I, blamed you.

In your post, you seemed to blame the lack of more common baths or soakings as the problem. This is what I addressed. daily soakings is not a cure for cronic constant dehydration. The cure is to prevent dehydration.

A real problem with larger monitors is proper burrows or hiding areas. These areas are what monitors use to control dehydration. They choose or make burrows with a midrange of humidity. Say around 50% -. They will choose or make burrows with higher or lower humidity if needed. They do this very much like they choose temps. They do not care to have high air humidity at all times. They use dry air to dry out when the burrows are too humid/moist/wet, such as after rains. Or after coming out of the water.

Monitors spend the vast majority of their lifes in burrows hides, enclosed areas. They do so for security reasons, hydration reasons and temperature reasons. They live in their burrows, like you live in your house.

The very first thing a monitor does when givin a new area is to make/find a burrow. That is, if it can.

Your last comment was very telling, you did not care for what I said. Sir or sirsette, information here is not really about you, or what you care about, most information is about the monitors and hopefully of help and use by the monitors. Because this is a public forum and not private conversation, the information is of MORE use by others reading the post.

If you think you know so much as to not make mistakes, then why are you here? All of us make mistakes and all of us do not fully understand the exact needs of monitors. The very best written information on the keeping of monitors is very very poor. Sir, if the written information is so good, then how come of the 500,000 or so imported monitors(yearly) 99% die in the first year?

Of course if its pointed out that you may not understand something, its offensive to you. But as I mentioned above, its not about you. You should not be offended by me, you should be offended by what you just had occur. Cheers

Point taken.

Thanks, Yvonne