Reptile & Amphibian Forums

alr[bleep]ht i do not own a caiman. i have worked with reptilians all my life and own quite a few lizards, some snappers, snakes, all sorts of th[bleep]s, my friend's dad is a herpotolo[bleep]ist (is that spelled r[bleep]ht?) so i am always around snakes, toroises, turtles....ect. they also own a caiman. i cant remember what type but that is irrelevant. they say that it will not out[bleep]row its surround[bleep]s, so therefore they have it in a 30 or 40 [bleep]allon tank and say it will not reach its potential size in that tank. will it ever reach its potential [bleep]row[bleep] point when if kept in a smaller tank, is that unhealthy for it. i am plann[bleep] on [bleep]ett[bleep] a dwarf caiman at the show, but i wanted to make sure that this was not abusive or bad for the little beauty! but like i said my friends dad has his masters in herpolo[bleep]y, so plz do not respond if you only have an opinion or an idea. i am not be[bleep] rude...its just that i really need this info from an experienced and knowled[bleep]able person since i am compar[bleep] it to someones word who went to school for 6 or 7 years study[bleep] them. thank you
kody

i'm no pro at caimans but i'm sure that everyone on this forum experts and all will a[bleep]ree with me when i say they deffinatley DO NOT [bleep]rown to fit their surround[bleep]s! Deppend[bleep] on the sepiecies of caiman it is they [bleep]et wro[bleep]hly 5-6 5-8 feet in le[bleep]ht! that little tank deffinately will be out [bleep]rown shortly... if its fed r[bleep]ht... there is a care sheet at crocodilian.com that has tons of valuable information for car[bleep] for caiman from handl[bleep] to feed[bleep] to housbanry. [bleep]ood luck!

k

If your friends dad is a Herpetologist, he certainly wasn't the brightest one in his class...

hmmmmm - unless what he means is that if they are kept in an unsuitable sized tank they will grow to the point were the environment causes them so much stress that they get sick and die. If that's what he meant, he is brilliant and right on the money.

Bill

To those who took it upon themselves to insult a trained professional, my dad, this is his son:

first, my dad has been a herpetoligist for 25 years. second, he has dealt with some of the worlds most renound reptile experts. third, i have never heard of you, i dont know where you get your information, but obviously not from a credible source, reptiles accomidate to their surroundings, not to the surroundings that you all say they think they are in, although anyone credible realizes that they dont think...so you shouldnt try it anymore either.

i dont believe you have ever or should ever in your right mind try to accomidate a reptile, seeing as how this is not your most promising subject, in the school at which you might attend.

furthermore, i dont know why a school might have accepted you, if you would like to talk to someone credible, please call a professional such as my dad, who knows and has been educated on what he is talking about.

again thank you so much for your wonderful credible information, that will hopefully not ever be taken by someone, for they might just kill there reptillian.

You deffinately do NOT know hat you are talking about!!!! Bill is one of the most knowledgable poeple on this forum and has given VERy valuable information... i understand that your sticking up for your dad and all but bill has had i believe he said ( bill correct me if i am wrong) 20 years or experience with crocodilians!!!! You shouldn't go saying what you said about him without knowing how experienced he is. Obviously your dad has no experience with crocs.... they WILL NOT just grow to fit they're encloser!! it would be very cruel to keep it in a little tank all its life and if its not growing then you deffinately are not feeding it enough!!!!

sorry for exploding but i think you were way out of line to say such things

k

To those who took it upon themselves to insult a trained professional, my dad, this is his son:

first, my dad has been a herpetoligist for 25 years. second, he has dealt with some of the worlds most renound reptile experts. third, i have never heard of you, i dont know where you get your information, but obviously not from a credible source, reptiles accomidate to their surroundings, not to the surroundings that you all say they think they are in, although anyone credible realizes that they dont think...so you shouldnt try it anymore either.

i dont believe you have ever or should ever in your right mind try to accomidate a reptile, seeing as how this is not your most promising subject, in the school at which you might attend.

furthermore, i dont know why a school might have accepted you, if you would like to talk to someone credible, please call a professional such as my dad, who knows and has been educated on what he is talking about.

again thank you so much for your wonderful credible information, that will hopefully not ever be taken by someone, for they might just kill there reptillian.

Sir,
I don't believe anyone wishes to insult your dad. You obviously have a great deal of respect for him and that is a very good thing. However I would simply like to suggest that crocodilians may not be the area of his expertise. Many years ago the belief that crocodilians would grow no larger than their enclosure was very prevalent. This is simply not the case. I would respectfully recommend that he or yourself do some reading of relatively modern crocodilian information on your own and then decide. There is simply no room for reasonable doubt. The usual thing for a young crocodilian kept in an enclosure much to small are deformations(often the jaws) and to some degree a stunting effect that usually ends in the early death of the individual. Many of the people on this forum have been keeping crocodilians for years and in their own right are experts even if not "professionals" keep in mind all experts aren't professionals and all professionals aren't experts. If you are one of those individuals that believes in order to be an expert you must go to school for years than perhaps Dr. Adam Britton will be kind enough to reply to your post and I believe he will concur with we commoners.

Seth

,

First you stated it was your friends dad..... now it's yours......hmmmmmmm

If is your dad saying these things, now I understand where you got your smarts. Apparently the nut doesn't fall far from the tree!

In any event, you have totally embarassed yourself here, now go to bed like a good little boy.

Following that logic... why don't they grow to infinite sizes in the wild? How do they know when to stop? How do they know how big to grow if kept in a transparent glass tank? What if they make a mistake and think that their environment is the entire room and not just their tank?
I had a bit of trouble reading the rest of the post... might help to repost it... kingsnake glitch...

thank you very much for the info!
appriciate it
kody

ok...first off they do not KNOW how much to grow, it is programed in them. They do grow to "infinite" size in the wild...they never stop growin...the rate slows down....so if they did not die they would grow to infinite size. second...if they were in the room they would grow to that size, if you knew about reptiles you would realize they are not smart enough, not enough brain capacity, to mistake and grow too big....beside it is not their choice...their body accomidates their surroundings, so the walls of the tank are there......it doesnt matter if the room is bigger....he can only go to each wall of the tank. and last of all, but definitely not least, i asked for PRO's---this is the reason, which is obviously what you are not, to try to dis a herptotologist, when you are of the opinion that reptiles THINK is not just stupid, but disgraceful to the whole herpetilogical world, so please, if you have any more great thoughts or ideas, feel free to NOT share them, i will stick to listening to trained professionals, not hobbiest. so thanks

if YOU knew anything about reptile you would know that they don't just grow to fit they're enclosure!!!! They do NOt grow to infinate sizes in the wild nor does anything else... ITS THE SAME WITH HUMANS!!!! ok now i'm asking you why humans don't grow to infinate sizes.. are we NOt smart enough????????? you really need to do much more research.some crocodilians can live well over 50 years do you really think you could keep a croc in a little 20 gallon tank for 50 years without it growing!!!! PLEASE RESEARCH AHEAD OF TIME and any where you look it will say you need a big enough enclosure! DO NOT go telling people they have wrong answers to your questions They deffinately are correct on this one!!!!

REASEACH BEFOIRE YOU GET!!!!!

k

ok, another dumb question on your part, "why do humans not keep growing until they die?", well that would be because WE ARE NOT REPTILES, but good try man, really smart, you should do a little research yourself.

Kc is far from dumb he/she has helped many people on this forum and just because he/she dose not agree with you there is no need to slander ….

ok, another dumb question on your part, "why do humans not keep growing until they die?", well that would be because WE ARE NOT REPTILES, but good try man, really smart, you should do a little research yourself.

Just to give you my opinion.. I have rescued loads of reptiles that were kept in small enclosures and not one was dwarfed because of it …I’ve had snakes with twisted spines ,.lizards with deformed tails and feet but never dwarfed ………….

As for research.. could you tell me at what age your finger nails stop growing?
At what age dose body hair stop growing?

Eeeek I’ve just discovered the human body dose grow till the day you die ……
-----
no way the way no limit the limit

it was just an example about the humans not growing all their lives!!!! NO reptile (or animal for that matter that i know of) grows its entire life in lengh and girth. Besides the obvious hair and nails etc. And with you disagreeing with everyone on this forum, i guess you think there are no pros on here... you are very wrong and need to do some major research about the queations you ask and will find out that that everyone on this forum is right in response to you.

i suggest you drop it and admit you and your dad are wrong!

-REPTILES WILL NOT GROW TO FIT THEY'RE ENCLOSURE!!!!-

k

Obviously a pro is anyone who agrees with him/his dad/his friend's dad. I must say that's the first time I've gotten flamed for asking a bunch of questions. I didn't even say he was wrong. I was just asking him to explain how it would work, really.

I also don't see how all 'reptiles' can be lumped together as a group of animals sharing characteristics. Turtles are probably less closely related to crocs than humans are, and the closest thing I own to a crocodillian is not my lizards or snakes but my Bourke's parakeet, Zippy. Of course I could have kept Zippy in a shoebox and ended up with a finch...

(yes, I'm an addicted lurker who owns nothing close to the animals discussed in the forum... so sue me... I just jumped in because I'm really sick of the myth and I hate seeing what it does to crocodillians and other herps).

"of course I could have kept Zippy in a shoebox, and ended up with a finch"

LOL -

Priceless -

I know one "pro" in particular, who certianly think that reptiles are capable of thinking.

Or, if not, at least that they, as no animal should be "stunted" by inproper feeding an being housed in unhealthy conditions - (eg, an enclosure to small to properly accomidate thier expected growth)

I feel uneasy that there could be "herpatologists" out there, who believe otherwise - And, do question the legitamacy of thier training, and expertees on the subject -

Raven -

Mmm... well, why don't you just try it and see how it comes out, if you're so sure? Make sure you get the enclosure nice and small.
Makes me wonder why so many people in my city are dumping crocs because they got too big, when they just could have stuffed them in a 10 gallon and they never would have grown...

Has no one realized you're simply being argued with?

No one can be this stupid.
Specially someone who has so much respect for herpetology that they have absolutely no clue how to spell it. Forget the rest of the misspellings, but usually someone will know how to spell something they're interested in even if they're somewhat illiterate.

Think you should just let it go...

Mr. F

made the mistake of feeding it.

Who knows, the guy might be serious, but he needs an attitude adjustment. This is a very pervasive... erm.. 'theory' (ie myth). Even herp people think it's true for fish, and probably vice versa. When I hear it I usually make some joke about how I did the same thing for my dog by keeping her in the closet and back slowly out of the petstore/ away from the table (the dog is a 'miniature' or Italian greyhound).