Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a pair of pied hets and I'm curious to know IF I get a pied with this breeding, can I breed it back to the mother/father to get my 50/50 pieds and hets, or should I get another het pied from another set of parents? If I can breed back to mother/father, can I still breed within the same "family"? when do I have to start getting another line before any defects start to show? Hope I'm explaining this correctly. Thanks

some people say don't

some people say 7 generations

the parents aren't related with what you have now?

aaah.....do it either way...we / they all do
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,,,,,,,,,OK..I never heard of you.........

I've been inbreeding chinese hamsters for 10 years probably and haven't gotten an "odd" color yet.....someone got a pied and bred them up.....but I still get brown or snowflake....that's it........I'm closer to a better snowflake but that's it....and they breed more than one generation a year

........line breeding is ok to an extent
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,,,,,,,,,OK..I never heard of you.........

if and when line breeding will cause a unwelcome flaw in ANY animal. It could be first time breeding or next breeding as my blood red corns did from the Loves. Generally , it is recommended no more than 3 breedings. But what is " line breeding " ? The term of line breeding was associated with sibling breeding of past and not so much of : father to daughter ( or reverse ) and or mother with son ( or reverse ). If we talk of high priced investments on species, do you take that chance of line breeding and coming up with non-salable offspring's due to the possibly flawed genetics of line breeding ? My experience and it has been many years ago and i hold no grudge on Bill or Kathy and I even doubt they would remember this ? It was a pair of blood reds fairly new on the market and prices of juvies going for well over $100 per. I paid $250 or $300 for a pair of adult breeders from them. First time out breeding and neonates no problems. Second time out 75 % kinked tails. Third time 100% kinked tails and with some kinked bodies. I did absolutely nothing diff on any procedures of breeding and incubation of eggs to the hatching of the offspring's. I called them and I think it was Bill that I talked to and his records showed the pair that I had acquired from them were in fact related siblings. I wish that I was told this in the beginning ! This is to the best of my recognition of that time. But like I said, " water under the bridge ".
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

they have the same father, different mothers. I don't want to run into any problems when they are ready to breed. Since they are from the same father, do you think I might run into any problems with the offspring?

You are less likely to run into problems than if your pair was from the same father AND mother, but they are still siblings.

No one can tell you what will happen.

I heard of someone who had line bred his rat snakes through 20 generations with no visible problems (sorry, can't document where this info came from. Could be just a "story", but it sounds reasonable.).

But in genetics folks talk about hybrid vigor. Meaning that the more you outcross, the larger and more vigorous the animals (or plants) will be, and the more you inbreed, the more the animals (or plants) will be stunted and less vigorous.

You might consider that if you produce a pied, selling it or trading it for a new pied with different genetics.

Good luck.

Chris Morasky

First time out breeding and neonates no problems. Second time out 75 % kinked tails. Third time 100% kinked tails and with some kinked bodies. I did absolutely nothing diff on any procedures of breeding and incubation of eggs to the hatching of the offspring's.

Was this the same pair all three times or three consecutive inbred generations?

If it was three times breeding the same pair then their genetics didn't change. They didn't become any more or less inbreed from one breeding to the next. Maybe inbreeding made them more susceptible to some other factor (nutrition, environment) that increased in severity each breeding. But since there genetics didn't change over the years I'd look for something that might have change as the cause. Maybe as the female aged she produced less healthy eggs or maybe something else was running out like nutrients that your feeders weren’t providing. It would be interesting to know as it might help avoid kinking in other areas, like the caramel ball pythons. What became of the snakes after the 3rd breeding? Where your feeders from the same source all three times you breed them? Same rodent feed?