Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to get some opinions from you all about some wierd acting breeders. Two pair of my Thayeri are acting the same way. When I put them together the males will try to breed for a short time (20-30 min), and then just give up, and go to the opposite side of the tank, and will have nothing to do with the females. If the females come close the males will thrash around wildly, and move to the other side of the tank again to get away from them. I am now leaving them together, and every time I check they are still on opposite sides of the tank. Is this normal acting for Thayeri during breeding season. I have two other pairs of breeder Thayeri, and one of them I couldn't pry apart with a crowbar, and the other one I'm just waiting for the female to shed. I have never had a problem getting my snakes to breed, but like I've said before this is my first year to breed Thayeri. Are some pairs just not meant to be together? Any opinions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Ken

I believe you have what is commonly referred too as a “San Francisco” pair. They are likely both males. I had the same behavior with a pair of Ruthveni a few years ago. It turned out they were both males. Same exact behavior you are describing. I had bought the pair from a very reputable breeder and never thought to check myself when I got them. Had this happen with Hondurans many years ago too (you would think I would learn).

It is a dominance display you are seeing. The one that keeps loosing is now going to have poor self esteem and may never be a good breeder.
Check the sex again.
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Now, I'm not sure thats always true. I have a proven male that will go after the female for a while . And when its apparent that she is not ready and refuses him, he will give up and go to other side of cage. Now when the female just touches him or crawles over him by accident, he will "buck" her.
Chris' Colubrids

I've seen the same and I tend to believe that it's a male natural defensive response to a female that is not receptive that he can't get away from. A wild male has farther to retreat and wait, in a captive breeding enclosure he has nowhere to go but in a far corner. If the female gets too close which is inevitable, the male is most likely on the defensive out of fear of being killed.

Best separate them and re-introduce until the female becomes more receptive of the male to prevent any bad results.

Mike

but it does make sense. All of my males a VERY different from each other in the way that they respond to the ladies.

My high orange leonis seems to have the most sense as far as his approach. He's also the most experienced.

My dark headed MSP is the most aggessive but that may be because he's getting the least amount of action.

The yellow keyholed leonis is also aggressive but doesn't always know which end is which and seems to be a slow learner about that too. He's also my smallest male and seems a little over anxious. He does the most bucking too.

Sharktooth has spent the most time with the ladies but also is the laziest. I almost always have to put another male in to get him focused on the job at hand.

I think that Mike may be on to something. That probably why my keyholed yellow male does all the bucking. Fearful lust, not a good combination.

BTW I posted a few new pics I took today on my website. Look under female breeders and male breeders.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Mike, that makes sense.

I most definitely could be wrong but you should check to be sure.
I did not mean to imply that was the only option. There are many, unreceptive female or immature male are two others that come to mind. But check before you waste a bunch of time.
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Well Rick, you were right on one of the pairs (my most anticpated clutch), and the other pair has started to "hang out" now. This breeding season has really started to go south. My olive green female with the orange saddles got out about a month ago, and I haven't been able to find her. Now the pair I was excited about the most (the 2 bottom pics) are both dudes. I've gone from 5.5 to 6.3. That sucks-lol. Guess it could be worse. Three clutches are better than none. Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate it.
Ken

OK- this is really getting effen sad. I decided to resex my pair of corns because they weren't acting as interested as they should be, and they are both males also. This is really starting to piss me off. I realize that I am ultimeatly responsible for sexing them as soon as I get them in, but the amount of dishonest people in this business that lie about sex just to get rid of their surplus is really starting to get alarming. I'm going to start asking for double my money back in writing if the sex is wrong. If they are legit then they shouldn't mind. It's not enough just asking if they've sexed them theirselves because they could lie about that too. I realize people make mistakes sometimes, but over the past year I've had at least 5-6 snakes of different kinds (mostly Thayeri) shipped to me as females, but ended up as males, and I'm really getting tired of it. When I tried to get back in touch with them some of their email addresses had been deleted, and some of them got down right rude with me telling me I was lying. I guess there are always going to be people ready to scam you, but you just have to stick to people you know are on the up, and up. Oh well, thanks for letting me vent. lol.
Ken

Like I said, it has happened to me twice. The first time with the Hondurans, I think it was on purpose, the guy disappeared shortly after I bought them. With the Ruthveni, it was an honest mistake and the breeder made me a deal on one of his own holdback females. I think most of the time it is an honest mistake and an easy one to make. I recheck them all now.
At least you still have three females, they could easily produce 60 to 70 babies if they double clutch. That’s something to stay positive about.

By the way; Happy Easter!

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

I bought Sharktooth as a female. But the seller made me a great deal on a female. I sex my hatchling snakes at least 3 times. I would do all I can to fix that problem.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

The olive green female I told you escaped a month ago just showed up tonight. I went to the bathroom, and there she was sitting on the toilet lid. I wasn't expecting it, and it half scared me to death. lol. I've been stressing about her ever since she got out. What a relief! I'm gonna give her two, or three meals this week, and then see if she's ready to get it on. She looks like she has just shed. I know snakes can go along time without eating, but how can they go that long without water? She must have drank for the first 10 minutes after she was back in her tank. It's good to have ger back. Now the delima is which one of those males should I put her with? She was originally purchased with the bright green male from Dave W. of Mountain Kings. He is a Dan V., and she is from Vivid. She is supposed to be a grandaughter of Tims original wild caught female. I don't know much about the lineage of the peach buckskin, but he's gorgeous.
Ken

That is great news Ken. Your ahead of the game when that happens. Mike
Chris' Colubrids