Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Am I the only one who gets a giddy feeling when there is a new arrival on the way? Isn't it nice when people offer you some of what they find on a herp trip? I don't even have to leave the house to field herp anymore! A friend came across a black rat the other day and knew I was looking for one. So he offered it to me. So she should be here tomorrow afternoon. Maybe she will be gravid (cross fingers) I know there are some of you out there who will say why not just pay the $15 for one... Well obviously you have never seen a MO black rat! And that is a perk of living in a state that has loose legislation and a "Blanket Law" Pics tomorrow. Just to keep it on topic here are some old pics of Hope.

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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

np
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0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"

I amfrom MO and just caught 4 black snakes the other day, one had amazing coloration. I am just starting to try to get deep into herping and am wondering what you know about the laws in MO. I myself am looking for a prairie kingsnake and hoping to get one at the herp show on the 30th. Any information you can provide me with is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Where in MO are you? I am in Joplin (sw MO) here is an AMAZING link you should check out. Kinda gives you an idea of your odds. And it is fun to help fill in the blanks http://www.herpindex.com/

Missouri has a pretty simple law. It's called a "blanket law" because it is the lazy way to cover everything all at once. You can collect up to 5 of each species and keep them no questions asked. Meaning... you can have 5 wc black rats, 5 wc prairie kings, 5 ringnecks, 5 brown snakes, etc. This does not apply to hotts and I am sure you need permitts to keep these. I talked directly with my counties conservation agent and he didn't know anything about herps SURPRISE! If it's not a deer, a turkey, or a bass they could care less. I will change that whenever I become an agent. Anyway I was able to get 1 or 2 usefull things out of him. The way he interpreted the law is that you can not sell these wc snakes and if you breed them you must release the babies (which seems counter productive to me) So say you breed your wc ratsnake and it throws 15 eggs. Before you bred them you had 1.2 wc black rats so you have 1.2 wc rats and 15 eggs. All the eggs hatch so now you have 18 technically wc black rats. By law you have to release 13 of these snakes and it doesn't matter if you release the babies or adults. I asked if I bred a cb to a wc if the law still works the same and he interpreted it as a yes. I don't think if I bred my orange albinos to a wc and then bred the f2 that I should have to release albino black ratsnakes.....but the laws don't always make sense. If you purchase a wc from another state this law doesn't apply as long as you can provide some proof of purchase. This is a state law and there can still be county and city laws that may limit your rights to own snakes. Such as in Joplin it is illegal to own a snake over 6' in city limits. I hope this helped a little.

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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

the way you worded is confusing as I have caught my self doing the exact same thing. Here is the law of Missouri on reptiles of native status re-worded : > you can have 5 and only 5 in total of any species of non-listed, non-protected reptiles. This would also apply if you collected out of state of the same found species of Missouri but this needs to be contested if you have a legal other state permit. You can breed and sale native species with a class 11 permit, But here is the kick-back > the person that you are selling to also needs the class 11 permit because as the law explains : no selling or bartering or anything that resembles profit or exchange of any source of monetary gain is allowed unless permitted. Also Missouri at this time has NO condition or provision what-so-ever for a non-resident to collect legally !
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

Are you saying you can only own a total of 5 natives? As in 2 emoryi and 3 black rats would be my legall limitt? Also you said nothing about cb/wc. I didn't know if it was an assumed or not. Are you saying I can only own 5 cb black rats legally? And that I would need a license to breed cb black rats...? That is not how the laws were interpreted to me. Thanks for clarifying
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake "Shadow"

direct communications with the Mo. wildlife agency and not my local county game enforcer when I lived there. A TOTAL of only 5 native species ! For captive bred animals and if native, you need documentation and or receipts of each animal and they must be from out of state or you need the commercial ( as they do ) permit of the class 11 to buy or sale native species within the state. Do you see the loop hole or flaw on this ? Next is the gray area : you have found a gravid native black rat ( or put your species here ) and she has offspring's. When will the law kick-in on the 5 only total. At birth ? To be legal you must dispose the other over the limit animals. How do you do it ? Give away to other people is one option with no monetary gain. Release back into wild ? > but this is suppose to be within guidelines of the wildlife agency where they themselves are suppose to do it after you surrender the excess numbers to your county game officer. Option with-in a option : the game wildlife officer can approve of you yourself to releasing the excess animals back into the wild. They are suppose to accommodate you to your location of released approved area/spot. Yeah, sure !

Let's look at the " flaw and or loop hole " of the total numbers and this is common with a not " WHOLE " picture scenario or not thought out law : I was told that EVERY person in my family could legally have up to the total of 5 species. So when I lived in Missouri I could have ( name your species here ) 20 milk snakes since there was 4 of us in my family.

The bad info or interpretation of laws of my county wild life officer while in Bates county Missouri : he said , upon me asking , that i could keep timber rattlesnake from Mo.with the same 5 total limit. When I asked the state for my wanting to display the species in my pet store ( and there was no law in the city of my business that said I couldn't ) they said no the timber was off limits to collecting in which I thought. They said the county agent was miss-informed.

The above has/had many of us west Texas hunters under the same problem of the local game officer interpreting the law themselves either wrong or miss-informed. This has been threaded on this site ( but not this forum ) of past.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

i've been looking for a female to breed to my male....currently my female black rat is ill but my male is ready to go!!! I'll see if i can find some good pics of them and send you some. its hard to take pics of black critters.... anyways... just had to tell you you're lucky! ~kin
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude)
1. unknown hypo? normal? (Romeo)
.1 Miami Phase (Emily)
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury)
1. Classic het Hypo, Anery, poss het Amel (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy [Emilys babies])
.1 Amel (Pepperoni)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss het Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Classic het Hypo, Stripe (Gracie Lou)

Rats:
1.1 Black rats (Cecily, Willard)

Cal Kings:
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Skunky, Dweezil)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
.1 Blizzard

~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLE~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)

Your tellin me! Try photographing an ALL black snake! And one of Hope to keep it on topic...




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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

hehe...only problem with mine is that they are about 6 feet so i cant take a cute lil pic like that. as soon as i find batteries i'll try to take pics.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude)
1. unknown hypo? normal? (Romeo)
.1 Miami Phase (Emily)
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury)
1. Classic het Hypo, Anery, poss het Amel (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy [Emilys babies])
.1 Amel (Pepperoni)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss het Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Classic het Hypo, Stripe (Gracie Lou)

Rats:
1.1 Black rats (Cecily, Willard)

Cal Kings:
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Skunky, Dweezil)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
.1 Blizzard

~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLE~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)

I have some lousy pics of curious cecily, lazy willard, and to keep on topic my pregnant Emily...miami phase.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude)
1. unknown hypo? normal? (Romeo)
.1 Miami Phase (Emily)
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury)
1. Classic het Hypo, Anery, poss het Amel (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy [Emilys babies])
.1 Amel (Pepperoni)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss het Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Classic het Hypo, Stripe (Gracie Lou)

Rats:
1.1 Black rats (Cecily, Willard)

Cal Kings:
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Skunky, Dweezil)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
.1 Blizzard

~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLE~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)

t
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1.0 "Goini" King
0.1 Hypo. Floridana King
0.1 Sumatran Blood Python
0.1 Mexican Rosy Boa

Joplin (sw MO)
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"