Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was looking at cages over at pvc cages and I can't figure out which size would be ideal for a yearling. I read Greg Maxwell's book where he suggests buying a cage that can provide adequate stimulation is optimal but he is talking about adults mostly. Would it be inappropriate to buy the largest cage available such as the 34" wide one? Is that too big for a yearling? Or would it be more ideal to buy one that is 24X24X24? That seems kinda small. If anyone is familiar with the cages he has pictured on his web-site can you please tell me which one you think would be the best for a gtp around a year old. I haven't purchased the gtp but I want to set up the cage well in advance. Was hoping to order one in the next few weeks. Thanks.

It all depends on the size of your "yearling" GTP. Personally I will let them get about 14-16 inches and then I transfer them into a full size cage. I personally use the Boaphile 334AT and that is 36"x 24" x 18" and that is there cage for life. Everyone on here has there opinion on commercial cages, but I really enjoy these cages and I have tried many of the other brands. It just seems I have the most control and consistent results with the Boaphile tanks. Good Luck
Mike D

My 4 month old hatchling was bigger than 14-16". My girl at a year was closer to 2-2 1/2 ft and I moved her to a 30 X 24 X 24 cage then. She was in a rubbermaid tub before that as is my new youngster. He/she is around 25" long and I'll probably get a larger cage like Tempest when the big show comes around in August. It also depends on the temperament of your chondro. Mine are both pretty laid back and don't seem to get too stressed about anything. If you have one that's a nervous type, you might want to keep it in something smaller.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

Your chondro is so awesome looking it pretty much blows me away every time you post a picture. If you kept a 4 month old in that long of a cage then I am assuming it's better to just get the largest cage I can keep the conditions stable in like something over 30." So the small cage theory just applies to neonytes and not yearlings I suppose. I thought yearlings got stressed out from too large of a habitat at first and you had to be gradual.

I did not move my girl into a larger cage until she was over a year old. My young one is still in a rubbermaid container and will be until it's at least a year and probably older. My girl is also really mellow and doesn't get stressed by much. She adapted easily to the larger cage, ate just like normal and was out cruising around the first day I put her in it. If she was really a skittish animal with feeding issues, I probably would have waited until she was much larger. It all depends on the animals personality. Most like Whisper will not be a problem either. He/she is very mellow also and has no feeding problems or issues. I think he will readily adapt to the larger area when he gets old enough to switch him.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

So you are saying generally speaking it would be safe for a one year old to be kept in say a cage over 30" in length and that could be used for adults too? I would prefer to get a good one from the start and not have to move up to a bigger one too soon unless I felt the animal was outgrowing the habitat. Can you give me the e-mail address of that cage you use so I can look at it? Thanks for replying.

Yes, you can use a 30 X 24 X 24 for most of their lives, especially if they aren't really long. I might end up going with the next size up in the vision cage now that I have more room where she is kept. The space I had her in before (next to my bed) would not accomodate a 36" wide cage. Some people have kept chondros their entire lives in a 24 X 24 X 24 setup although Greg doesn't recommend that. He thinks that a minimum of 30" is necessary. I would try to get one with the flat ceiling if you are going with a heat panel. I had gottne the one with the heat shroud and had to cut it off to put the heat panel in there. It's doable, but a pain! There are various distributors around. Just put in Vision Reptile cages in a search and it will take you to various places. I know they are located near me in Canoga Park, but I don't have the card handy.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

Thanks for the reply Meg you certainly kick ass as a person and a chondro keeper. So you go with Vision cages? I will check them out. The thing I like aboutthe PVC cages is that they sell them complete. I am ordering my cage in two weeks but it will be a little bit before I can come up with $575 for the animal. It will give me time to set it up though right. I live in South Florida and humidity levels are ordinarily high year round but that's got nothing to do with it I guess since it will be kept inside the house obviously and not outside. Now that you told me that if I can't find something from Vision I will buy a larger cage from PVC Cages. I think the larger one they sell should work out pretty well. That pic is so incredibly awesome it's not even funny. Where did you buy your Tempest from?

Well you certainly can't go wrong with the PVC cages. They are beautiful and almost everyone who has one loves them. Vision happened to be local and at the show I went to, so I didn't have to pay shipping and tax. I also use real branches for perches, so I could decorate any way I wanted. As for the compliments....thanks, but I'm not sure they are deserved. I haven't kept GTP's that long. However, that said, I did do a lot of homework before I got my snakes so that I was well prepared when I got them. I had also had other snakes before these, so I learned a lot from keeping them.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

Seems like you are doing something right. You raised some healthy beautiful green tree pythons. In my book that is worthy of praise! Hehe. The reason I like PVC cages is because they come equipped with most of the stuff I will need like the perches, heating pad, and light. I think I may have enough for the one I want in two weeks or so. Then I will set it up and try and get everything spot on while I save money for the animal.

Well personally, I'd like to get them to 3 years of age (both of them) before I consider myself accomplished with them. One more year for Tempest and two for Whisper. So far so good though! Anyway, setting everything up ahead of time is the best thing you can do. It will give you time to stabilize the temps, see how the humidity works out and allows you time to adjust things like perch height, placement and decor (if you have any). Can't wait to see how it looks!

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

i can tell you that the pvc cages are worth every single penny...the radiant heat pannels are great and the cages hold humidity as well as u want with the adjustable vents. all i have in mine is the bedding and a water bowel and ofcourse the perches....one really good misting in the morning and the humidity goes to 80 or 90 and drops slowly to 50 or 60 percent by the next morning....i plan on getting another cage for the snake in the pic very soon....that one is my baby...the one i have in a pvc cage is a yearling

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0.0.1 Borneo Blood Python--(lucifer)
0.0.1 IJ Carpet Python--(spike)
0.0.1 Colombian Boa--(vlad the impailer)
0.0.1 Ball Python--(Ghengiz Khan)
0.0.1 Aru Green Tree Python--(hannibal)
0.0.1 Biak Green Tree Python
0.0.1 rose hair tarantula
0.1.0 2 year old boxer--(Diamond)

I'm glad to hear that because I think I pretty much made my mind up to go with PVC Cages. I think they know there stuff and I can't go wrong. I am going to order it a week from Wednesday when I get paid. The one I want costs around $370 complete and black. Gonna take me a while to save $575 for a gtp from Rico Walder and Signal but I wouldn't have it any other way. I just drove to Underground Reptiles and a few weeks ago I stopped in there and they had like a gazillion neonytes for like $200 each. I bought the Greg Maxwell book and started reading on the way to the Orlando Supercross. So to make a long story short I went in there today and they only had like 3 or 4 and one yearling. It looked skinny and unhealthy. All the reptiles like the lizards had like smash marks on their face and I just felt B A D for them. The Emeralds they had looked pretty rough too. My brother bought two dart frogs off them and they both died. He wished he would have taken preventative steps when he got them like de-worming powder but it was very sad. All the frogs he got from the breeders are alive and spawning. He has like 4-6 tadpoles now. I was hoping to obtain a yearling in like a month or two if there are any left by then but I know exactly the one I was hoping to raise. It's one of the mainland type animals bred by Rico Walder. They look healthy and vibrant.

Not sure what animal you were looking at getting from Rico but if you are getting the PVC cage Jim offers for $370, that cage will be way to big for a yearling. I'd look at one of Rico's 2004 offspring for that cage size. I wouldn't put a yearling in anything larger than a 5 gallon tub enclosure. I just received one of Jim's 24x18x16 cages for my 2004 female I received from Rico. Even this cage would be way too big for a yearling in my opinion. Jim offers a 16x16x16 PVC cage which would be appropriate for a 2005 yearling but it will grow out of it after about a year or so. This might be a good option for you since I know you want to avoid keeping it in a tub.

I am attaching a pic of my 2 year old female in the 24x18x16 cage I just received. You can also see one of my yearlings in a 5 gallon tub at the bottom of the pic. Not the best pic but it gives you an idea of how big these animals are in contrast to the cage size.

Bart

Wow that's a pretty snake. I like the coloring. I don't know I talked to Jim at PVC Cages and he said a lot of people can successly putthem in that cage but other people keep them in smaller cages usually to save space. I'm a little concerned because I am hearing different things from different people about the issue of gradually increasing the size of the habitat. I want to keep things fairly simple at first until the animal adjusts but at the same time I only plan on getting one so space is not an issue. I think s/he will be fairly stress free because there isn't a lot of people coming in and out of my house. One point raised about the issue of size which made me kind of think was that in the wild they don't live in cages at all and survive. I am still kinda confused because a lot of people I ask have differing opinions. Is that a cage you bought from PVC Cages? Looks nice. I like it a lot. Do you ever move it around or do you always leave it in the same place? Also (sorry about all the questions) what thermostat do you use? Thanks.

I think it all goes back to the animal itself. I moved Tempest into a full-sized cage and she was just over a year old. She is a very mellow animal though, not worried about much at all at any time. If you have a very nervous animal, that has issues with feeding or with people being around, I'd wait on moving it into a large cage. When I put Tempest into her new home, it was in the middle of the afternoon, yet she spent at least 15 minutes checking out every inch of it and was out immediately after dark investigating some more. She never acted stressed about a different home. In the wild, they do live in large spaces, but a lot of them die too. We have the chance to keep them healthier and in less stressful (at least we hope) conditions in captivity. It's a matter of knowing your animal. If you get the larger cage, you might want to have a smaller setup to initially put it in until you can gauge how it will react. If you wanted to, I suppose you could place the smaller tub into the pvc cage and take advantage of the temps already there.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

As you stated, opinions vary. Realistically, any neonate should be able to survive in a cage the size of a house if you look at it from the argument that they survive in a jungle. With that said, you are probably not buying an animal that was born in the jungle. You are buying an animal that has been raised up to this point in the 12qt rubbermaid tub. It is used to a very small and secure environment so why put it through such a sudden drastic change which could cause it undue stress?

Here is something else to think about. The cage you are considering will cost you around $400 when you factor in shipping. You stated that this will basically consume all of your funds and you will need to save up again for the animal. Jim offer's a 20qt tub enclosure w/ tub and perch for about $65 plus shipping. This would be suitable for a yearling and would hold it for at least another year. You could then use the additional money you would have spent on the larger cage to place a deposit on one of Rico's animals, then make payments until it is paid off. As Meg pointed out, whether or not a yearling will adapt to a large enclosure depends on the individual animal's personality. Why gamble $400 on the personality of an animal you don't even have yet? It would make more sense to buy a small enclosure, put the rest of your money towards the animal, and eventually save for the larger cage which you would not need for quite awhile.

You asked about thermostats. I use both Big Apple Proportionals and Herptstats. Either one will run you over $100. This is another expense you need to consider before getting the animal. Money you may not have available if you put it all into a cage you do not need.

Bart

That's good advice. You're right that they are prolly used to the small enclosure for so long that it is what they come to expect and the combination of the shipping factor and the new environment might cause too much stress. I think what I am going to do is get a small Rubbermaid tub like you suggested. Then I can put the snake in the smaller tub for a while and later on see how s/he responds to the larger cage in a few months or years depending on how big s/he is when I have the money. Either way I am eventually going to need a larger cage though. I ordered the cage and the thermostat. Cost around $135 for the thermostat. I will take your advice though for sure and keep her in a small tub just to be safe but I could pick one of those up at Wal-Mart. I got a job I love this year and have been making more money now so I am just catching up on my bills. I charged the cage and thermostat but I will have that paid off in ten days. Then I am going to wait about another month or two to order the snake. Partly because of money but also because I was hoping the snake I wanted would become a little more stable in the care of an experienced breeder for a few more months. I am trying to time the purchase so the snake is a little older and less fragile for the shipping shock.

That's a good idea. I made my own rubbermaid tub for my babies and it worked great. Fortunately, Tempest was in her big house when I got Whisper. Whisper went directly into Tempest's old rubbermaid container. I figure when the Anaheim show comes around again, Whisper will be ready to move into the larger house. Hmmmm, that will leave the rubbermaid house available.....

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.4~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin,Minuet
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

Is your yellow snake an adult? S/he is quite thick. Is that a high yellow?

Nope! That's my girl before her color change. She was a wee tot then...well sort of a wee tot!
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.4~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin,Minuet
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

Wow hehe ...a wee tot!?! HAHA!! How old was yours before it started changing color? I can't get over how you put her on a branch outside and she chills. That's amazing. What would happen if she started hauling ass. How would you get her back?

She changed at about 14 months of age, and hauling ass is not part of her vocabulary. She's a Diva after all....the amble, never rush!

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.4~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin,Minuet
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

That's awesome you have a lover. So what do you think was key to that? ...luck? That last pic was incredible!!!

Luck I guess. Troy said the entire clutch was just like her. Very, very calm, but killer eaters. My other Jaya type seems pretty calm too. I can handle it without a problem, but it's the same story after the lights go out....shark! I'm hoping her babies will be docile like her but still have the good feeding instinct.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.4~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin,Minuet
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

I was wondering if a breeder knew which ones had particular personalities at a young age and would hold back on the ones they might grow a fondness towards and not want to sell it. Must be hard to sell one. Seems like selling your baby away. I don't have kids but sheesh it must be rough selling a little chondro baby you bred!?! I couldn't fathom that.

Actually, she was a holdback and he changed his breeding plans and decided to sell her. That's why she was a year old when I got her. Worked out perfectly. He will usually tell you if they are tame or not. If he says they are...they are.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.4~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin,Minuet
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

Is that her when you just got her? Beautiful!!!

Yup! My husband was dissapointed that she turned green, but I think she's much prettier.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.4~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin,Minuet
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com

How long did it take for her to turn green? Looks like an adult in that picture but sometimes it's hard to tell in a photograph. I thought they turned green way before they were fully grown.

She was about 14 months old when she started changing. It took about 3 or 4 months for it to be complete.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.4~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin,Minuet
0.1.1~Green tree python~Tempest, Whisper
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
0.1~Old black Lab~ Callie (RIP)
2.0~fat cats~Topper, Briscoe
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
www.franclycac.com