Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I keep reading (other forums, not necessarily here) that chameleons "like to" or "aim for" crapping in their water bowls.... I'm not suggesting that someone should use a water bowl or not, but does anyone really think that they do it on purpose? Personally, I think the idea sounds silly, and if there's a water bowl in the bottom, more likely than not it's going to get hit, but do you think they do it intentionally? Just a thought, and I'm interested in what anyone thinks.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.BLUEBEASTREPTILE.com

No, I do not believe it is intentional (nor do I believe it can be so with ectotherms). As many of us know they do seem to crap in the same place (or maybe a couple places). I know with Luna it ould always land on a scheff leaf under her basking branch.

The experiment would have to go someting like this: place the water bowl (why are we using a water bowl again? Must have bought their cham from Ms. L___de Pin_o) in a different location everyday for a month. If your cham poops in the bowl every poop, everytime, every day then there is a scientific (behavioral) research paper to start working on. But my guess is the keeper will find that his/her cham poops in a limited range of space and if the bowl is there it will occasionally get hit. I even find that my tarantulas (now only one ) tend to squirt in the same area, too.

Silly. But poop threads can be fun! lol!
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Now I am not sure if it is a coincidene or not, but when i used to use water falls a few years back...lets just say I would have to clean it everyday. I didn't try movind it to a diff spot everday, but it was a rather large cage and after a week, I moved it to the other side of the cage. The same thing kept happeneing and I had to eventually remove the waterfall. The cage was a 175 gallon reptarium, so the water fall only took up a little space. When I put it on the other side of the cage (2 feet over), there is no way, in my opinion that it was a coincidence. LOL, I can tell that I wrote this very confusingly (if confusingly is a word), but I think you guys get the jist of it.

-Adam.
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Email Me!

Well, they usually do crap in the same place, and I believe Kristina said recently that her melleri use a "communal" spot to go in.

I don't know if they do it on purpose, or not. But I have used water bowls extensivly in the past - I used a drip system that drips into a water bowl, and the chameleons drink from it wether it's dripping or not. I dumped it and cleaned it daily - and still there was usually feces in the bowl - even if I moved it.

I think it's just a matter of chance - I always tended ot put the bowl in a location where the chameleon would see it, and where they'd get at it.

I believe theyr'e certainly capable of much more thought than many give them credit for, but I don't htik they crap in water for the purposes of crapping in water. It's just that, if you're putting a water bowl in, it's going to be ina location where the chameleon wills ee it,a nd have access to it. Those places tend to be places where they're likely to go.

No way no how do they do it on purpose. They go when they have to. Many of my guys go in the same spots. But some of them dont. Some of them just go wherever they happen to be sitting at the time.
In the case eric and adams chams....here is what I think. I think when a cham gets done drinking...he's much more likely to take a crap than he is when he's just sitting there being boring. I give alot of my chams showers fairly frequently. When I do, they drink alot. And alot of times, when they get done drinking alot, its like they need to make room.....so they drop some weight. Adam if your cham was drinking from your waterfall, this may be why you found that even when you moved it, his pooping habbits seemed to move. The same with your guy eric. If you had a dripper going, and a bowl directly below it....then it may be because of your cham being fully hydrated and just needed to make some room after his nice long drink.

>>Well, they usually do crap in the same place, and I believe Kristina said recently that her melleri use a "communal" spot to go in.
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>>I don't know if they do it on purpose, or not. But I have used water bowls extensivly in the past - I used a drip system that drips into a water bowl, and the chameleons drink from it wether it's dripping or not. I dumped it and cleaned it daily - and still there was usually feces in the bowl - even if I moved it.
>>
>>I think it's just a matter of chance - I always tended ot put the bowl in a location where the chameleon would see it, and where they'd get at it.
>>
>>I believe theyr'e certainly capable of much more thought than many give them credit for, but I don't htik they crap in water for the purposes of crapping in water. It's just that, if you're putting a water bowl in, it's going to be ina location where the chameleon wills ee it,a nd have access to it. Those places tend to be places where they're likely to go.
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Noah @ 2by2

true, water seems to be the bigger influence (over food). Darwin (dragon) will go while his humidifier is on or when I place him in his tub - like right away. Some times all he ahs to do is SEE lettuce and he's scrambling to get out and into his tub (he is toilet trained - lol!!

Right now Cyrus does not seem to have any favorite plac, but he is still in his small cage and doesn't have much choice. Letting him out on his jungle gym a lot and find little poops ont he floor! :-O
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - swifty and blotcha for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Well, I think your description kinda makes it seem like they're doing it on purpose - well, not an accident, anyway.

I never really thought of that, but it's true. They do go a lot when they're drinking. If they're drinking above a water container, well, then... it just makes sense.

They always go in the water, while they dont' aim for it, I think you're idea is dead on - it's more than a coincedence.

One of those "duh" moments.

When you think about it, what better use would a chameleon have for a water bowl. I don't have any water bowls for my Chameleons, but my Tokay Geckos (2 cages with 1.1) have water bowls and there always seems to be at least one big tu*d in there. They seem to enjoy the big plop when it lands in the water bowl. After one goes in the bowl the other usually comes over and licks their face.

I think critters in general DO defecate in water on purpose. The reason is so that the fecal matter is carried away from them or hidden from plain site. Keep in mind turds give up an animal’s presence to predators. I have seen numerous TV programs covering this and have also seen similar behavior with insects … there is this one caterpillar that will actually launch its poo through the air several feet in order to hide its presence. I’ve even witness a horn worm do this as well to a certain extent

Know a cham may not fully understand that the water bowl isn’t moving water and the poo won’t be carried away, but I really think it’s on purpose some of the time. Either way the poo will be hidden in the water … maybe enough so that a predator won’t detect it. I also agree with Eric … we don’t give critters enough credit for their actions … many actions may have purpose.

-roo

I think Noah's got it right - it's cause they're drinking a lot at once, and they poop when doing this sometimes.

However, I do not think they are incapable of complex behaviors. I think they are not pure instinct, as some do. I have seen quite a bit of learned behavior over the years. Social interaction is partly learned, for sure, as is their understanding of their surroundings. they learn their cage, and how to navigate. Chameleons don't take a direct path ot an object, they know what the best route is, throught the pathways and branches. I've seen them get back to their roost in the dark. They "know" things, remember them.

I believe this is a major reason chameleons become stressed when moved. It's unfamiliar to them. In nature, this only happens when they hatch - they're never thrown into a new territory. They always move from one to another.

They recognize their keeper - My melleri will climb onto me, without provocation sometimes - but she'll give others a dirty look.

Sure, they do "stupid" things - grabing their own legs, for instance. But they also learn some reall yneat stuff.

My male veiled has some nerve damage in his rear legs. They dont' work well. He sleeps with his back end hanging down, and walks using his front legs more than his rear legs. He's learned to use his tail as a replacement limb. Normal chameleons don't use their tails like he does. He will bring it forwards - sometiems ahead of his rear legs, wrap it around the branch, and brace his back with it. And he does this FAST - as fast as if he was using his rear legs. It took him months to ge tgood at this. At first, he'd just drag his rear legs. Now, he's much better at it.

But then tey do some really stupid instinctive suff - like when th efemale is non-receptive, and I move her out of the way, and he decides that my wrist looks receptive, and he mounts my hand and rubs his vent on my wrist, looking for the cloaca.... an dhe holds on, even after I move him....yeah...pretty gross....

He was like this for a few monutes, looking for my hand's vent.

Not sure if she does it on purpose or not. my Veiled also seems to like to drop a load in her water dish daily, and food dish. i realize that the chance of her drinking out of a dish are very slim. However makes me feel better while i'm at work all day to know she has water in the cage. I've also caught her lounging in it from time to time. Currently i'm trying to figure out how to teach her not to poop while she's in the hanging plant near my window... Chameleon dropings don't make good carpet decorations, and one landed on my heater >

lol!

Does she free range? Can you put her in a cage while you are at work and let her wander when you are there? I found that Luna used to poop very early in the day - then it was safe to let her play on her gym Darwin (bd) is not allowed to get on the bed with the cats or go exploring until he has pooped in his tank or his tub! lol!!

As for water, how about a dripper setup or a humidifier set on a timer. I find the latter to be great; just needs to stay on long enough for moisture to form on leaves since it is such a fint mist. Just some thoughts.
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - swifty and blotcha for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she's back!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

currently live in a small studio apartment so don't have alot of room. 5 days left in the navy and i'm moving home thou where i can build her a bigger cage and figure out how to put in a humidifier. Acually i only put her on the plant in the afternoons when i'm reading or watching TV. just happened to step out to buy some stuff for her cage and came back to find the steamy poo, and missing chameleon. Didn't think she'd try to escape in the 25-30 minutes i was gone. lol... Finally found her because she was trying to sneak across a walmart plastic bag and i heard it making noise. She was almost completly black, dark brown when i found her. blending in with my leather couch and pillows. Silly chameleon.
As for the free range i only close her cage when i feed her and crickets are running around. after that i open it and she just hangs out. she's not tried to get out of her cage. and only times i've lost her she was trying to get back into her cage. she's adapted methods of climbing up the electrical wiring to her heat lamps, and into the door. she's smart!

peace

McK aka Tag

I have female panthers and a female veiled that poops in their foodcups almost every time I provide them. The reason I say almost, is because if there isn't poop in the cup by the time I do the morning clean up, then there isn't poop in the cage at all.

I have even started to leave food cups, tilted on an angle, so that when they sit atop it to poop, it hits the side of the tilted cup, rather than falling inside witht the prey.

My experience anyways. If they aren't aiming, then they sure do it unconsiously pretty often.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS