Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I got into GTP's and JCP's A few years ago and have seem to accumulated a small breeding group or so I think... I have 2 Female Chondros (One Biak One Jayapura), I also have One Male Chondro (Biak) One Male JCP Around 6 foot, and a new unknown JCP/Diamond Cross (someone probed it and said it was female but I am not sold). Anyone have any ideas on what I should do? I would really like a Carpondro but I was thinking why go out and buy one if I have all the ingredients.

here's the disclaimer first, I have never bred reptiles before, so this info is 2nd hand at best, but more likely 3rd hand so take it all with a grain of salt, and hopefully someone with 1st hand knowledge posts after me.

Seems that most people that have produced this cross, aka the Carpondro, seem to have used a male Chondro crossed with a female Carpet. This is for the real Carpondros, as I know many are now producing Irian Jaya X Chondro hybrids that are also often referred to incorrectly as "Carpondros". But it would seem to me, with the Irian Jayas the body form is much more similar in size/shape than the true Carpets, so it might not make as much of a difference how they are paired up.

Hope this helps,
Dan

>>as I know many are now producing Irian Jaya X Chondro hybrids that are also often referred to incorrectly as "Carpondros"

Curious to know why you would not consider Irian Jaya Carpet Pythons "true carpets"? Carpondro is a term used to identify a morelia spilota ssp./Chondropython hybrid, it is not limited to mainland carpet species/subspecies. Most of the carpets in this country are so crossed up theres no way to identify them to subspecific status (or species status for that matter) depending upon which nomenclature you subscribe to....Irian Jaya Carpets are more similar to Chondros than say a large mainland Coastal but they are still very much carpet pythons. In many ways identical to the northern territory animals often referred to as M. s. variegata....You are correct that female carpets have been used to produce the majority, if not all of the existing crosses. And to the original question....If what you desire is a cross than by all means you have the animals required to attempt it. Remember that as with most hybrid pairings it will require a compatible pair. Hybrid boids are often the result of many pairings to get the "right" pair that finally produces viable offspring. Good luck.

Horridus@aol.com

Well, in my humble opinion the Irian Jaya "Carpet" Pythons, are different from a true Carpet(think Jungle) python because of a few things and because of these differences I feel representing a I.J. X Chondro hybrid as a "Carpondro" is incorrect.

My main contention is body structure. If you have ever held both, then you know that Carpets are thicker bodied, and usually longer as well, are semi-arboreal but mainly spend their time on the ground, and are more prone to eating small mammals. On the other hand Irian Jayas, due to island isolation and evolution, have evolved into a more specialized niche, trading off their bulk in order to spend more time arboreally hunting birds, as they are the most common food prey item in island populations.

If you look back to Darwin, when he was in the Galapogos studying finches, he found several "species" with common mainland based ancestry, that had evolved just like the Irian Jayas into specialized niches. The phenotypic differences(visually observable characteristics) such as size, beak shape, color, etc gave each finch species/sub-species an advantage within its' specialized island niche.

Now you are probably asking, how does this relate to the Irian Jaya Pythons? Well, visibly(color/pattern)they are very similar to the mainland based Jungle Carpet Pythons, but in their structural build they are much differently adapted for survival, and much like the finches have evolved seperately and distinctly from their mainland counterparts.

But I guess in the end, it comes down to semantics. When I hear a snake refferred to as a Carpet Python, I think "Jungle Carpet Python", not "Irian Jaya", not "Coastal", etc. Maybe that is just my peculiarity, but I have heard these terms used generically and in this reference many times within the herp community.

Here's another example, if you bred a Super Dwarf Reticulated Python with a Dwarf Burmese what would the progeny be? Bateaters? NOPE! They would be Mini-Bateaters. This is a good example, even though it hasn't happened yet, because both dwarf varieties are I believe derived from island forms of both parent species.

So, in closing I guess I'll just say this, it really just depends on the phylogeny and the semantics being used, all else is just wasted time arguing. Personally though, I would feel that the animal would be misrepresented if it was an Irian Jaya X Chondro hybrid, and was being sold as a Carpondro. Also in my opinion, I would say that the animals described above should be represented as either Irian Jaya Carpondros, or with a new name which specifically describes an Irian Jaya X Chondro hybrid.

Well hope this helps, and if you disagree please post here again or email me, as this discussion interests me deeply.

Thanks,
Dan

But you said it even yourself "Darwin still called the island forms canaries, even if slightly different from mainland"

They would still be carpets. I own most forms of carpets
and they are all the same species.

On the carpondro front, I bred these this year. gtp x jungle
and it is not that easy. 2 years trying hybrid pythons
and I would guess 1 pair out of 7-8 pairings will produce
offspring. That is a lot of adults to maybe have not breed.

The reverse carpondro pairings, carpet x gtp has been done a couple times, it's just harder to get to work. Size in this pairing is a factor as a large coastal,jungle,diamond would be just to large to bred a small chondro female. So 2-3 year old males that are small or small locale IJ are what is needed.

As with most NEW breeds the F1 to F4 generations are quite important. Records of the parents..ect. would be required.
The huge size, varied color and patterns variations within both carpets and chondros. Will make Carpondros an endless breeding project in my eyes.

Cheers,
MArdy