Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A346-2003Jul29.html

This is an article in one of the most respected newspapers in the country.
I especially like the "ball python" in the pic. What retards.
Large Washington Post Article on Exotic Pets

The Ball Python blurb was an editorial error but it was a good article. I think it portrayed our industry fairly. Don't we have importers killing hundreds of imported animals with every shipment? Teens purchasing green iguanas that will die before they get to be a year of age and then go buy another? I know we have people purchase snakes every day of the week who ask questions after they buy. I personally know more people buying breeding age animals and wholesale lots than I know ethical breeders who actually contribute to the hobby in quality animals, husbandry information, and conservation efforts. Someone says money and the line forms with people who use animals - perhaps that is human nature. I don't know. I personally think it is a sick reflection of humanity. I see our moderator got a couple of seconds of mention.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

I disagree. I read the article and was not enthused at all. Their facts were wrong or skewed, they never once mentioned any POSITIVE aspect to exotic ownership and to top it off, the dog and cat attack section was the last freakin paragraph (not like the average non-reptile person would even read that far). Even the one person who specifically defended our hobby came off sounding like an idiot for yelling at some woman. I got a really bad taste personally and seeing as how the Post is the newspaper read by most congress members, this could be damaging.

Factual problems: CDC reports 40,000 TOTAL salmonella infections per year, regardless of origin. Where did 93,000 from reptiles only come from?
The 7000 venomous snake bites report by UFL is readily available and states that 3000 bites are by handling or molesting the snake while 80% of total bites occur below the knee. Looks like the vast majority of bites come from wild animals that have been stepped on or the like.

I could go on....I enjoy the fact that my burms are legal here in northern virginia and Id like to keep it that way.

Exotics could be portrayed in a more positive light, you're right, but that was not the intent of this particular article. This one was written in response to the prairie dog issue, as you know. I don't think it skews the industry though. The opportunity is there for biased reporting on either side of the fence. Objectivity is seldom the point for reporting anything- persuasion is. Had this particluar article extolled the herpers who go to great lengths housing and keeping their reptiles, or the rescue groups that sacrifice personal finances in order to help neglected, unwanted reptiles find a quality of life, it would have been no less, biased. We are a huge industry and personally I can't vouch for fellow herpers. We disagree on many issues, our personalities clash, I doubt I would be able to call every herper I meet a friend, quite the contrary. The reporter chose to represent the negative side of the industry, but the facts were not made up- they were merely chosen to represent the point being made. That it ended with that disgruntled vendor was rather ironic to me- as I know several vendors just like that. He should have shown more composure- I bet his reaction did as much to hurt our image at the show than this reporter did by writing the article. In short this was not more ignorance from the media- it was imo, an accurate portrayal of a huge industry that has much to offer and eveything to find depending on what one is looking for. The reporter found what he or she was looking for.

I know you have more at stake than I do- the show was close to your home. I live in an agricultural area- I moved out here to keep my giants in peace and it has come at a high personal cost that I don't think many of my fellow herpers would be willing to pay. Why don't you write a letter to the editor expressing the positive side of keeping exotics and mention the facts this reporter left out? React professionally, as the person you appear to be, and you will help discredit the view posed by the reporter. It is only a view of many, after all. The only way to portray ourselves as professional competent people is by behaving in such a way. Writing factual, non-emotional, non-inflammatory letters and articles in response to biased views that would seek to have our animals taken from us is one of the ways to ensure our reptiles stay in our homes. Education is the way to reform- even when that reform means changes in the reptile industry.

I disagree. I read the article and was not enthused at all. Their facts were wrong or skewed, they never once mentioned any POSITIVE aspect to exotic ownership and to top it off, the dog and cat attack section was the last freakin paragraph (not like the average non-reptile person would even read that far). Even the one person who specifically defended our hobby came off sounding like an idiot for yelling at some woman. I got a really bad taste personally and seeing as how the Post is the newspaper read by most congress members, this could be damaging.

Factual problems: CDC reports 40,000 TOTAL salmonella infections per year, regardless of origin. Where did 93,000 from reptiles only come from?
The 7000 venomous snake bites report by UFL is readily available and states that 3000 bites are by handling or molesting the snake while 80% of total bites occur below the knee. Looks like the vast majority of bites come from wild animals that have been stepped on or the like.

I could go on....I enjoy the fact that my burms are legal here in northern virginia and Id like to keep it that way.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

I did, in fact, send a letter to the Editor regarding the article, its skewed facts, overall poor representation of the hobby and the industry itself, and requesting a follow-up piece highlighting RESPONSIBLE OWNERS AND SELLERS and the joys of exotic ownership. I will be watching to see if the letter gets published. Ill let yall know if it does!

That is great. I hope they give equal time to a favorable view of our industry as you asked. That would be an excellent article (and I hope they get a competent photo editor to properly name the reptile, if there is another photo). I have an untested theory that describes 10% of herpers as the ones helping our industry and 10% hurting us. I think if the other 80% wrote letters, acted responsibly, and took opportunities as they presented themselves -to educate informally, for example- we as a whole would not be threatened with losing our animals when anti-exotic propositions came up on the agenda of insecure radicals who feel the need to point fingers and assess blame. I am also writing a letter.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

Unfortunately I think it will be a LONG time before even mature herpers take this looming threat seriously and somehow band together, enmass, to form strength in numbers. Unfortunately, I would have to think that the vast majority of reptile keepers are either minors or just so young as to be uninterested in such political agendas. But for the remainder I feel that a group or "union" should eventually be shaped and formed. We MUST have an entity or organization to represent us as a whole. Not unlike the ACLU, but for true and professional herpers. And I don't think it's far-fetched to believe that such a concept can be started right here in the herper forums.

>>That is great. I hope they give equal time to a favorable view of our industry as you asked. That would be an excellent article (and I hope they get a competent photo editor to properly name the reptile, if there is another photo). I have an untested theory that describes 10% of herpers as the ones helping our industry and 10% hurting us. I think if the other 80% wrote letters, acted responsibly, and took opportunities as they presented themselves -to educate informally, for example- we as a whole would not be threatened with losing our animals when anti-exotic propositions came up on the agenda of insecure radicals who feel the need to point fingers and assess blame. I am also writing a letter.
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>>Marcia Pimentel
>>Tango River Reptiles
>>GiantFeeders
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I truly despise those that are in this business solely to turn a buck and couldn't care less about that little iguana in the bag that they just sold for 5 big ones. I wish they could somehow be extinctified (the greedy dealers, not the reptile). It is this front line of the animal market (the brokers, breeders, dealers = "suppliers" that is mostly responsible for the 90% that die in the care of an inexperienced persons hands. It is THEIR responsibility to place those animals in capable hands. Shame on any lowlife money grubbing scumbag that has ever made even a single sale such as this.

As for the 93 thousand cases of Salmonella attributed to reptiles each year,... there are VERY few deaths as a result, and furthermore there are probably 20 MILLION cases of Salmonella from eating factory processed chicken! So that is (almost) a moot point.

I was SO glad to read that those warehouse importers were getting busted, raided and SHUT DOWN! Those scum sucking bottom dwellers are the hub of the problem and have zero respect for the animals that they exploit for profit. I just wish they had stiffer prison terms for them.

Enough said. All in all I liked the article and it shows some promise for the future of herping.

>>The Ball Python blurb was an editorial error but it was a good article. I think it portrayed our industry fairly. Don't we have importers killing hundreds of imported animals with every shipment? Teens purchasing green iguanas that will die before they get to be a year of age and then go buy another? I know we have people purchase snakes every day of the week who ask questions after they buy. I personally know more people buying breeding age animals and wholesale lots than I know ethical breeders who actually contribute to the hobby in quality animals, husbandry information, and conservation efforts. Someone says money and the line forms with people who use animals - perhaps that is human nature. I don't know. I personally think it is a sick reflection of humanity. I see our moderator got a couple of seconds of mention.
>>-----
>>Marcia Pimentel
>>Tango River Reptiles
>>GiantFeeders
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

This WAS a pretty good article. I was actually at this show, and I've gotta say it was well set up etc. But there were still those selling WC snakes etc. That I just don't understand, with all the animals available, do we REALLY need to have this kind of importation of wild animals? I don't think so, I agree with Brians scumsucker comment there. I specifically made sure my animals were CB animals.

I also agreed with the comments quoted to Bonnie in that article... A LOT of people were selling sulcatta's, not to mention other animals, but saying nothing about how much care they'd require or size. And it was a little sickening to read about the one girl with the iquana's... I have to wonder, does she have a heart at all? Giving them away because they got too big??? Uhg.

Though, I do wonder if we shouldn't all start flooding congress about how much we enjoy our "exotic" pets. Knowledge IS power, education is priceless.... Just my two cents, I'd hate to have my babies banned.

KC

The "flooding Congress" with letters regarding how much we love and appreciate our pets. But I can see more cons than pros with that idea. First of all, it would suddenly call attention to their existance that was otherwise distracted with terrorism and oil. And these people undoubtedly have never had a pet beyond a kitty or a poodle so they could never relate to loving a scaley cold blooded spikey thing. Not only that, but to make a generalization,... politicians and government officials really don't care about what the people love, so much as what is "practical". So they would probably view this as pointless hobbying. Unless something practical, like, "good for the economy" was pointed out.

Just a thought.

>>This WAS a pretty good article. I was actually at this show, and I've gotta say it was well set up etc. But there were still those selling WC snakes etc. That I just don't understand, with all the animals available, do we REALLY need to have this kind of importation of wild animals? I don't think so, I agree with Brians scumsucker comment there. I specifically made sure my animals were CB animals.
>>
>>I also agreed with the comments quoted to Bonnie in that article... A LOT of people were selling sulcatta's, not to mention other animals, but saying nothing about how much care they'd require or size. And it was a little sickening to read about the one girl with the iquana's... I have to wonder, does she have a heart at all? Giving them away because they got too big??? Uhg.
>>
>>Though, I do wonder if we shouldn't all start flooding congress about how much we enjoy our "exotic" pets. Knowledge IS power, education is priceless.... Just my two cents, I'd hate to have my babies banned.
>>
>>KC
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

So true Brian! Then again, they may feel a bit of kinship, given that they ARE politicians... another of the cold blooded slimy family! Besides, ahem, we are a "billion dollar" industry according to that article!

Irrigardless I would love to see a few of them on our side or even one of the tv magazines or even the Discovery channel do something positive on these animals. Oh well... some day even reptiles will become mainstream as more and more people become familiar with them.

KC

And (another generalization),.. they (the powers that be) listen to the $$$CHA-CHING$$$. And the pro-animal rights groups (kind of an ironic name) do lobby their issue. So if push came to shove,. we (the herpers, breeders, brokers) would have to organize a well funded group to lobby for "pro-exotic pet prolifferation and possession". Or something to that effect. I would certainly be a major contributor to such a cause/organization.

>>So true Brian! Then again, they may feel a bit of kinship, given that they ARE politicians... another of the cold blooded slimy family! Besides, ahem, we are a "billion dollar" industry according to that article!
>>
>>Irrigardless I would love to see a few of them on our side or even one of the tv magazines or even the Discovery channel do something positive on these animals. Oh well... some day even reptiles will become mainstream as more and more people become familiar with them.
>>
>>KC
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

It concerns me greatly that this article, put in front of the people that are trying to ban all exotics, will just add fuel to the fire. I feel the herp community needs to really start working towards making sure that the animals they are selling are going to people who are truely interested in the long-term care of these animals and not just getting a reptile on a whim, with no knowledge of how to care for them. Personally all my animals are here to stay and live out their life with me, whether they be large, mean, biting, musking, tough to deal with animals. It makes me sad that people would actually buy an iguana and just toss it out once it gets too big. On top of it all, I can't believe that Mellisa Kaplan, of all people, would be in agreement with an all out ban on exotics. As for those that don't want me to own any of my snakes and feel they will some day be able to take them away from me, check the second part of my signature. Take care, Scott.
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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.
But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
—Martin Luther King Jr

If you're going to quote MLK, you should be aware that his philosophy of civil disobedience, as well as Gandhi's, involve openly violating the law and paying the legal price, not doing so in secret and hoping to skirt the authorities. Doing the latter and invoking his name is ignorance or hypocrisy.

Check out this post on the same topic in the Herp Law forum. Very interesting.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=106785,109970
One of the "interviewees" speaks out

About this whole reptile industry ordeal,Its the fact that most of the animals that get killed,sold for cheap,or get treated like sh!t are the ones being kept by importers/exporters but yet everyone still buys from them and thinks its alright.What a bunch of no nut hypocrits.You actually have the gall to call yourselves reptile enthusiasts when all you want to do is get the animal,breed it and make a quick buck.Even if you dont do it for those specific purposes when someone like a newbie buys one and asks a ? about what to do in a certain situation you ridicule them for not doing their homework instead of trying to help them in a helpful fashion like should be done.I mean talk about calling the kettle black.You want to jump on the media about ridiculing us for our lack of integrity but yet you do the same thing to others but figure its alright for you.

Now for the whole issue of banning.Its a great idea,not in the form of an outright ban but in a form of restricted banning.For the most part alot of people dont have the means or money to care for most of these animals.If the importers/exporters dont kill them with their lack of husbandry skills some if not most of the ones sold will die from someone elses lack of husbandry skills but again thats life right.Alot of you here as well as other forums have a problem with importing/exporting but dont see a problem with them staying in business because its now become the ever more popular "way of making a living",trust me there are much better ways of making a living than by the suffering and cruelty of animals.You can guarantee that if kids were sold like that then everyone here as well as everywhere else would hunt the perpatraitor down and hang him/her by the buster browns but its alright to do that with animals because hey theres more where that came from right.I say close the import/export business to the all out stripping the land of animals with the exception of very rare (extremely restricted to professionals only not ameteurs),or endangered (again same as above with the exception of being freed to the wild to help revive the populations).

As for sales,If the person buying is below the age of 18 and does not have either parent with them then they dont get the animal.If the parent(s) are with the child and lets the child buy the animal in ? then the parent(s) should be held responsible for what happens to the animal.If you are above 18 you should be required to take at least a 6 week course on how to care for reptiles/animals namely,snakes,lizards,birds,crocs,,etc. After taking the course when purchasing you have to show proof of age and proof of completion of course,if you cant provide either then you dont get the animal.Crocs and any venomous animal SHOULD NOT be sold to anyone without a liscense and proof of at least six months hands on training with a professional in the field,and definately SHOULD NOT be sold to anyone below the age of 21.If they are sold to anyone below the age of 21 then the seller of the animal should be held accountable for what happens.In otherwords if the minor gets bit then the seller should have to pay a stiff fine and possibly serve up to 60 days in jail. Thats it for now. Regards Bill McLeod

I think ultimately the industry will take care of its own problems, or they'll be taken care of for us via regulation or banning.

It may be time to look at something similar to how falconry works. Licenses, apprenticeships, etc. Particularly with respect to venomous and giant constrictors.