Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Looking for some consensus on bringing up babies/juveniles. We have yearling Womas whose appetites are insatiable & their growth rates are excellent, going on 4' now. We've, essentially, let them stuff themselves once weekly, assuming this was OK practice. Recently, we purchased a pair of juvie Diamonds. The breeder cautioned us to never pursue that regimen with them, saying that to do so would probably result in shortened lifespans.
Is there an "across the board" approach to the proper amount to feed youngsters or is this a species-specific subject? Any & all input most appreciated.
Dan.

Power feeding,while it does make them grow faster,it does indeed shorten their lifespan and leads to unhealthy,obese snakes...
it is not to late to slow down their food intake (which i would recommend)...powerfeeding is usually done by unscrupulous breeders to try and get their snakes up to breeding size very quickly...sometimes breeding their snakes when they are only a year old!...most snakes (especially pythons and boas)mature at 3-5 years or so...

With voracious feeders like your Womas, a good, safe rule to use is only feed after defecation. When I had Retics, with the babies this was often every 4 days and resulted in a shed every 3-5 weeks! With the adults this was often every 10-20 days and sometimes longer. They grew up fine with no tendencies towards obesity or the dreaded "pinheads". With my boas (both CA BCI's and Amazon Trees) I typically use the same formula, but it translates out to 1 substantial meal every 7-14 days. I will also skip a meal here and there as long as the animals are all doing well in general. This seems to stimulate more activity and exploration on their part due to the disruption of their "routines" and increased appetites. Out of curiosity, what DID the Diamond breeder recommend as a feeding regimen for the juvies?

>>Looking for some consensus on bringing up babies/juveniles. We have yearling Womas whose appetites are insatiable & their growth rates are excellent, going on 4' now. We've, essentially, let them stuff themselves once weekly, assuming this was OK practice. Recently, we purchased a pair of juvie Diamonds. The breeder cautioned us to never pursue that regimen with them, saying that to do so would probably result in shortened lifespans.
>>Is there an "across the board" approach to the proper amount to feed youngsters or is this a species-specific subject? Any & all input most appreciated.
>>Dan.

He recommended, at this stage, to keep it down to a fuzzie per week (they're about 20". And to increase meal size proportionate to growth rate but not to overfeed. I trust this breeder 100%. I just have to wonder if the same rule applies to Womas. Whereas the Diamonds are content to relax in their hides & let me feed them hunch in bed, the Womas relax only when completely stuffed. Otherwise, their every thought is about the next meal. So, it just leads me to wonder if the feeding requirements of one are completely impertinent to the other. Thanks for your input & hope the thread will continue a little longer as I believe it's an issue many of us are not really clear on.

on reread, don't know where the smiley face came from & that should be "lunch" in bed...

I have 2.2 diamonds myself and they are always curious and active. You definitely can't rely on activity and behaviors as a guideline. I also use the weight of food as a guide when moving to the next stage along with alternating schedules.

For example, my diamonds currently eat one hopper one week then 2 the next week until they will be able to handle 2 per week. I find this helps in keeping them from getting fat. They aren't large enough to eat adult mice but I am not doubling the amount of food 100% of the time by what I am doing.

Different species etc can be very confusing if going by behaviors.:

My Diamonds: Always poking out and looking around and are on teh move at night alot. They would eat everyday if they could
Mad. Tree Boas: Mostly hide and eat every 7-10 days
Cuban Boa: Hides butis active and a more active hunter/eater

Overall point is to be methodical and don't let these rascals get everything they want.

i feed my boas one mice mabey two if they will take but no more i have read online that people have tied string or floss bewtwwen rats feorcing them down the snakes mouth this is not only mean but unhealty it indeed does shorten the snakes lifespan you can tell if a snake is powerfed by the size of the head in relation to the body if the head looks like a young snake glued to an adult snake u know it was powerfed and prob. unhealthy

Wouldnt do it, especially with Womas, only time I feed my animals heavily is after egglaying and during conditioning to breed and then only for a limited time until Im happy with their density. Its maintenance only the rest of the time.
I also waited until my girls were 4 before breeding, clutches were bigger, healthier, and my girls were able to recover much quicker I believe.
-----
Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Thankyou, everyone, for your input. If you would, please take me one step further. The Womas are about a year old & approx. 48". They've averaged a full belly, one every weekend, since I've had them. That's to say, as juvies, 3-4 fuzzies. As sub-adults, 3-4 hoppers. Now, 3-4 small adult mice.
Reckon I need to cut back a little. Whould some of you with Woma backgrounds tell me your thoughts on a proper feeding regimen from this point on?
Thanks all.

If they're not obese, I wouldn't worry about it. Many pythons will put on lenght, and not girth, by eating whatever and whenever they wish. Aspidites in general cannot take large prey items, and simply eat more often. Morelia are a different story.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

When I was about to get my first Retic, I asked both Bob Clark and another forum primarily dedicated to Retics about this. Both told me it was basically impossible to overfeed a Retic the way you can other snakes, and this seems to be the truth. I started my neonate female on a schedule of 1 rabbit pink (which looked too big for her to eat at first, but she didn't think so) every 3 days. She is growing at a very rapid rate, but is not the least bit overweight.

So I think it does vary from species to species, though I'm not sure how much. I could almost kill a boa with half that schedule (even proportioned), but the Retic thrives on it. By the time her feeding lump is gone, she's already begging for more.

Thankyou!! And that addresses the crux of my questions, which center around what actually is "power-feeding?" What might be overfeeding a Diamond could be underfeeding a Woma. Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill but, it still seems a topic with few definitive answers. I'm inclined to think that there is some substance to the thought that "narrow-headed" snakes like Womas & Rings require more constant meals simply due to jaw logistics.
Again, thanx for your input. Keep up the subject.

You also have to remember WHAT they eat. All Aspidites are primarily reptile eaters. A 5' BH or Woma eating a 3.5' snake or monitor is going to get a lot of meal, just not big in diameter. My female BH was able to eat a one pound rabbit last year, but it was a task. Carpets and such eat shorter but wider animals. Metabolism on BH is rather amazing.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC