Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I have been reading all posts about the Burm problem in Florida and I can sympathize with both sides. No one wants to see the native wildlife destroyed due to the carelessness of a few individuals, no matter how small the impact. But at the same time going out and killing every large burm they find in the Glades is not the answer either, they are wanted somewhere. If that were the answer I would love to kill every pigeon I see (I live in Chicago and those pigeons have crapped on my head one too many times!). In all the posts I have read, not once have I heard anyone suggest a Burm Roundup, kind of like what they do with rattlesnakes. The only difference would be that the captured burms (and other large biods) would be auctioned off at the end of the roundup and the proceeds could be donated to a local herpetological or wildlife society. Maybe I’m being overly simplistic but I think if some of the larger breeding facilities (yoda?) could work together and organized a Burm Roundup I’m sure they would get the help from many small time herpers like myself. I for one would love to spend a couple of my vacation days stomping through the Glades looking for burms! It could even be timed to coincide with the Daytona Reptile show for maximum exposure. Who knows, with every successful roundups the burms that are captures will be fewer and fewer to where a roundup would no longer be practical. My friend jmcghee and I are always on the lookout for large adult burms and retics, unfortunately the large adults are almost always too expensive. So why kill the burms captured in the Glades when they are wanted else where in the US, seems cruel and senseless to me.
josh

I can appreciate the idea of a "Burm Roundup" but I would have to say that it would not be possible or at least not very successful. I grew up romping around in those parts and the everglades is one of the most unforgiving environments to catch anything. It is hot, humid, and buggy. The ground, when there is actual ground, is incredibly soft and you can sink up to your neck. You can only appreciate the place if you have been there. There is also the fact that another apex predator is partial to the habitat.

You have the right idea but I have a modification. We should send all those sissy a** rednecks that think they are so cool catching all the rattlesnakes in the roundups down to the everglades for us. That would give the gators something to eat. The Burmese would have less of an impact on the native food source for the gators and I would see one less rattlesnake belt for sale when I am in the Southwest.

Sorry about the childish post but those rattlesnake roundups tick me off. How lame are those people?
Thanks....Adrian

lol...just kidding...not really,cats and dogs do more damage to the "ecosystem"..or whats left after we destroyed it,than even an army of burmese....maybe the burms will eat the stray cats and dogs...hmmm...

I find them annoying as well. The whole circus, 'yee haw', carnival-tent atmosphere is environmentally ignorant and odious.

As for the Everglades, I grew up catching snakes out there. It
is not easy, most of the land is in little islands surrounded by
water, mud and muck. Honestly I would be happy to volunteer to
attempt this, but the reality of the situation is that large
burms are not going to be easy to adopt off...

What's more, once they've tasted freedom as adults taming them
down would be practically impossible IMHO...

Hey Josh,

No doubt about it, if offered to me I would take in up to a hundred of the burmese they find out there (to be fully quarantined of course). But they don't want them to go to anyone that is making more burmese. Not realizing that it is not the number of burmese being produced that is the problem or cause of their supposed dilema down there. It is the type of people that sell them to just anyone at really low low prices, just to make a few bucks. Those that move as many snakes at wholesale rates as fast as they can so they don't have to pay an extra dime to feed them themselves. I loathe these seedy reptile brokers. These are the guys selling the burms to unsuspecting kids that are later abandoned and unwanted. And my need for normal burmese is not to make more normal burmese but to outbreed my morph stock so as to strengthen the lines genetically. This needs very badly to be done since breeders before me cut every possible genetic corner to make these as fast as possible and they are so darn inbred.

Whether droves of burmese are really being released into the wild on a continuous conveyor belt into the glades or not, I seriously doubt that many, if ANY of the 500 to 5000 dollar morphs purchased from private breeders are turned loose 2 years later due to being 10 feet. Speaking for myself, I'd say that 19 out of 20 of my own customers buy the morph burms (or any large species) with the sole intention of breeding them in a few years. These people are either already breeders or will be considered breeders in a few short years. They have done their homework and they know what they are getting into. Even so, I still always make sure they are aware of the great potential size and I verify their dedication to the animals before closing each deal. And even then I offer a lifetime return policy on all large species so that none of my offspring are ever the subject of abandonment or in some old lady's back yard eating her cat. I keep in contact with my customers after the sale and check on the snakes often to see how they're doing. To date none of the snakes I have sold have been abandoned or dumped somewhere or left at an animal shelter in a little basket.

But the lawmakers that be don't see a difference between breeders that genuinely care about these animals, that don't want to contribute to the problem of expendable burms and the seedy, lowdown brokers that chain-merchandise them out to the lowest bidders. To them we are all the same.

To them I guess the answer to wild burms lies in outlawing or banning them in private collections and that's just silly. This won't change the situation in the glades one bit. People will still have their burms and tics. They just won't tell anybody they have them. The laws do nothing more than make good herp enthusiasts into outlaws. And it's a real shame. Furthermore, if the wild burmese adults are in fact reproducing in the glades, and given the fair, semi-tropical weather there I would not doubt that they are, then these laws are very moot and pointless. If these snakes are making babies in the wild then it doesn't matter one iota what burms are sold or released. There will be a real problem just in these snakes reproducing and I can't see them ever being able to erradicate them. Not that I see the same ecological "impact" that has been pointed out by others. Unlike the brown snake on Guam, which has no predators to keep its numbers in check, the burmese is subject to literally hundreds of preditors in the glades between the size of 16 inches and about 12 feet. The few that would make it to a breeding size would be the incredibly lucky few and in essense this just makes the burmese yet another species that fits into the existing food chain. No real harm, no real foul. That's just my view on all this. Sorry for the overly long tirade.
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David Beauchemin
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I totally agree with you that few would make it to breeding size. Alot of this media crap I'm reading keeps saying that "they have no predators" in the glades, when it's just not true. I would think birds would take out more of them then anything else. And the crocs will no doubt attack and eat several large ones.
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Zeek Star
Web Designer
Modified-Design.com

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The story's regarding the invasion of giant Nile monitors in the Cape as well as the man eating Burms taking over the glades are very similar in both the Hype and the documentation surrounding them.In both cases state employed Biologist can be quoted as saying that the species have no natural predators here ,their eating everything , X number of animals have been caught etc. Lots of scary stuff. Also in both cases documented facts to support these claims are lacking.

It seems a little strange maybe suspicious to me that information such as what is the ratio of sex's that are being found ,the number of mature adult compared to sub adults and juvenile animals taken,have gravid females been found ,charting exact locations the are animals being found and the conditions , as well as other basic information you`d expect from any scientist studying an invasive species is grossly lacking or maybe is being kept low key because it doesn't support the interest of the people that stand to gain from a good scare.

In the case of the Niles I can safely say the reports are about as realistic as a bad episode of the X files.If their population is in the thousands or even hundreds or if there's even any as the media portrays they must be disguising them selves as senior citizens at Perkins. When it comes to the Burms over taking the Glades as of yet nobody has proven anything but the dooms day scenarios are being presented as fact. I would really like to see a large scale round up .It would be interesting to see how many are actually bagged. I'm sure the event would get plenty of attention but would the results live up to the hype ?

Ernie Eison