Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some herps found last week and weekend here in KY...

First off the snakes...

Worm snake..

Northern ring neck...

Prairie king..

Mississippi ring neck...

Belly shot of MS ring neck..

Western ribbon in shed..

Juvenile western cottonmouth...

2nd juvy cottonmouth..

Copperhead #1..

Copperhead #2...

Northern black racer...

A large midland water snake..

Black king #1...

Black king #2

Black king #3...

And now the amphibians...

Bird voiced tree frog...

Bronze frog...

Marbled salamander....

Spotted salamander....

Zigzag salamander...

Long tailed salamander..

2 lined salamander...

Cave salamander...

Red spotted newt...

Seal salamander....

Common snapping turtle..

Hope you guys enjoyed them!!! More to come in the near fuure!!
Brian

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Your "mississippi" ringneck looks more like a southern X northern intergrade to me.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.captivebredforum.com

The southern does not range into KY. We only have 2 ssp of ringnecks here, the northern and the MS. This ring neck was found in Fulton county which is the western most extreme county in KY. The northern does not range down into that portion of KY, only the MS. The northern either has small black markings along the centerline and can be entirely lacking. Such as this one found in Hardin county...

This is pretty typical for the northerns here. Some have black markings, but are not uniform.

This one is pretty typical for a MS, except that the tail portion of the belly is not orange.

But as we all know, the belly coloration of the ring necks are pretty variable. I have found some MS ring necks with cream colored chin, yellow belly that darkens to orange and bright red towards the tail. Others in the same area have been just like the one above.

However, none of the northerns I have found have had any orange or red coloration. Only creamish to dark yellow, with plain bellies or with a few black marks.
Brian

>>Your "mississippi" ringneck looks more like a southern X northern intergrade to me.
>>-----
>>Mike
>>KingPin Reptiles Inc.
>>www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
>>www.captivebredforum.com

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

This one is pretty typical for a MS, except that the tail portion of the belly is not orange

That statement alone points more at northern x southern intergrade instead of being pure stictogenys. I have seen plenty of intergrades between several different sub-species, that snake is not a mississippi ringneck... You don't see them with a straight line of spots... You see them with atleast 2 lines of spots and they are never that orderly.

On the other hand... A full ringed, yellow belly, straight line of spots and no red/orange tail points directly to southern x northern intergrade....

And sure no field guide will say southerns are where you are... But to be honest w/ you dude, field guides also don't say there are prairie ringnecks in eastern PA... southern ringnecks in Massachusetts and Ohio. Ringnecks get thrown all over the place because people realize they can't care for them and let them go, just like red eared sliders 20 years ago when they were a quarter. And due to all of this, range extensions happen and the ringnecks start intergrading.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.captivebredforum.com

This lends credit to one field guide that actually states that the MS ringneck could very well be just an intergrade of the southern X prairie ring necks. The various field guides I have seen though do not show the southern in KY. If I had to guess, I would say that the MS is actually, atleast in this portion of its range, is probably just an intergrade of the prairie and northern. And further investigation of the ranges of the different ssp, shows that the prairie range overlaps that of the northern and the southern in their respective ranges!

Pretty interesting stuff, you got me thinking pretty hard on this one!!

Could be why the MS ringneck has such a variable coloration in its range. I have found them slate grey to black, however none with red or orange under the tail!

Now that you have started the old gears working in my head I am now going to photograph every specimen I find, both dorsal and belly shots. This will be a neat project to see what the outcome is, as I find more ring necks than anyother snake here in KY.

Here is one from this morning, and is well in Northern range, hardin county KY. This is typical of the marks found when they have them. Uneven and broken.

Dorsal shot...

And a belly shot...

What part of the states are you located in? Would be pretty cool to see some specimens from your neck of the woods as well!!
Thats what I like about these forums, always someone on here making you rethink things!! LOL
Brian

>>This one is pretty typical for a MS, except that the tail portion of the belly is not orange
>>
>>That statement alone points more at northern x southern intergrade instead of being pure stictogenys. I have seen plenty of intergrades between several different sub-species, that snake is not a mississippi ringneck... You don't see them with a straight line of spots... You see them with atleast 2 lines of spots and they are never that orderly.
>>
>>On the other hand... A full ringed, yellow belly, straight line of spots and no red/orange tail points directly to southern x northern intergrade....
>>
>>And sure no field guide will say southerns are where you are... But to be honest w/ you dude, field guides also don't say there are prairie ringnecks in eastern PA... southern ringnecks in Massachusetts and Ohio. Ringnecks get thrown all over the place because people realize they can't care for them and let them go, just like red eared sliders 20 years ago when they were a quarter. And due to all of this, range extensions happen and the ringnecks start intergrading.
>>-----
>>Mike
>>KingPin Reptiles Inc.
>>www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
>>www.captivebredforum.com

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Was that northern ringneck gravid? Or maybe ovulating? looks it...

That snake actually looks like it could be a arny x edwardsii intergrade... Based on the fact that the spots are not in single formation along the ventral, they go into two rows in some places... And the spots aren't so much "spots" they are irregular shaped.

I'm in PA... But have worked with ringneck snakes from all over the U.S. I have very few pics of the PA specimens, mainly because they are by far difficult to come by. I do have several blurry shots of a 20" female I had eating mice. Here is a pic of her eating a salamander.

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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.captivebredforum.com

What evidence do you have of southern rings showing up in OH?? Not doubting you, I would just like to hear more about it.

Jason
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www.buckeyeherps.com

I know people that have found them. I don't know exactly where, but they're there in certain locations.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.captivebredforum.com

Great stuff Brian!

Those kings were gorgeous, and the racer was flawless!

Of all the herps I come across, I never get tired of seeing snappers. There is something primordial and impressive about the big guys!

Neil

Thanks Neil
That black racer was a nice find, and not too aggressive. Although he was a little cold, so if his temps would have been up Im sure he would have had the typical racer attitude!!!
The common snappers are pretty impressive when you find a nice sized specimen, but nothing can hold a candle to a huge alligator snapper!!! LOL
Brian

>>Great stuff Brian!
>>
>>Those kings were gorgeous, and the racer was flawless!
>>
>>Of all the herps I come across, I never get tired of seeing snappers. There is something primordial and impressive about the big guys!
>>
>>Neil
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian