Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I read several of the posts on here, especially the one just 2 or three before mine here, where some guys were asking for (and getting) some good info on Blood Pythons.

I am really interested in the Borneo Short Tails. Does anyone have any info on them - like if there IS anything that is important to note in their differences from Bloods?

My questions would be are they nippier, or calmer, get bigger, stay smaller, fussier feeders, easier feeders, etc. and so forth?

Also, would they be for me? I am fascinated with them, but I can recognize that that doesn't mean I would necessarily enjoy keeping them as much as I may think. I keep hearing things about how humid these guys MUST be kept... but then I hear about people keeping them on dry newspaper and doing just fine. So what do they really need?

As for my established preferences, I only have some Ball Pythons and a Dumeril's Boa right now - but I grew up keeping a sizeable colubrid collection, along with the odd boa or python or so... and am only now convinvcing my husband that lots of snakes are cool. When I say "sizeable" I mean between my dad and I, we had over 88 animals at one point... I didn't count the hatchling ratsnakes we were waiting to sell at that time. We maintained our collection for about 8 years. Anyhow, my point is, I have a lot more experience than my current collection would indicate. I've always liked the look of the Bloods, but was always steered away because everybody tells me they are difficult. Now that I am fascinated with the Borneos, does anybody have some more advice?

~Rebecca
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1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)

Rebecca,

I don't personally think there are any important notes between the keeping of BST's and bloods. They require the same temps and humidity and basically the same husbandtry all around.

From my personaly experience my BST's are a tad bit calmer than my bloods. This is not from a biting standpoint, but some of my bloods will thrash or maybe musk every once in awhile while my Borneo's don't. All of my BST's are captive bred while I do have some WC bloods, so I'm sure this factor contributes alot. I have no problems feeding either species, but bloods seem to pick up food dropped in there cage without constricting while my borneos like to grab it. But they both eat just as easily and just as much. Supposedly bloods are supposed to get a little larger than Borneos, but I can't say that I've seen any difference from a personal standpoint. All my BST's and Bloods the same age are about the same size, and I have a Borneo thats bigger than any Blood or SST I've ever seen in person. Again all these views are from a personal standpoint, but I would say in general there are really only noticable personality differences between the two species. I also have ALOT more Borneo's than bloods, so that might alter my views as well

From the experience you've mentioned I dont think you would have a trouble keeping a short tail or a blood. As long as you can keep a fairly consistant temperature and a set humidity level you should be fine. I do not think bloods are "difficult" to keep, they just are not quite as tolerable to changing conditions as other animals might be.

If you have any other specific questions I'm sure I, or any of the other keepers on this board would be more than willing to help. And I thank you for your detailed inquiry, it makes this much easier.

Jordan

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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

I think 'Bloods' are really no more difficult than the Dumerils Boa she has with the exception being the need for a bit more humidty (bloods needing maybe a little more). I've seen Dumerils significantly larger than Bloods (as adults), so I would not worry about the size of Short Tails or Bloods if the Dumerils can be housed and cared for accordingly.

There's really only one way to find out... buy one!

Matt
p.s. - Jordan: The snake in your post has obvious problems. Major problems! I have a GOOD DVM down here in Florida that could diagnose the problem accurately while it's in my care for the next 18 month quarantine period to ensure the snake is okay and eventually returned to you in good shape. Please contact me asap so you can send her to me. Thanks.

lol the only problem with it is.. I dont know if it is a male or a female?!? lol Got it as a "almost definately a male" and probed female for me.. bred to a male and is going into shed so ..who knows? hmm..
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Jordan,

Humor me again if you can... what morph is your beauty you posted?
It's gorgeous, whatever gender it ends up proving to be!

~Rebecca
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1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)

Thanks Matt,

I appreciate the vote of confidence. The BSTs/Bloods do get quite a bit heavier than Dumeril's Boas though don't they? They look stout enough I am almost worried I might throw my back out lifting one someday.

Dumeril's Boas are supposed to reach about 25 lbs, and depending on who you talk to, some stay between 5 and 7 feet, some people say up to 9 feet.

How heavy would you say an adult male or female BST should be?

~Rebecca
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1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)

>>I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Hey, I've ALWAYS loved these snakes and just cannot understand why more folks don't keep them.

> The BSTs/Bloods do get quite a bit heavier than Dumeril's Boas though don't they? They look stout enough I am almost worried I might throw my back out lifting one someday.

Not really... I've seen both species larger and smaller than the other. I've seen Reds that were like 40 pounders and Dumerils that I swear were like 9 feet and probably at least 50 pounds! That's not 'the norm' of course. Overall, I think the size would be similar.

>>How heavy would you say an adult male or female BST should be?

I'd have to measure mine... it's been years. I'd say about 20 to 25 pounds right now. Not at all a problem and WAY nice snakes to work with. Babies can be wild, but ALL python babies are generally nuts (at least in my experience). I've got Ball Pythons produced by me that are WAY nastier than my BSTP's babies were! No kidding...

All the best should you move forward and acquire one. Ask lots of questions and in my opinion, only buy CBB with these guys or a VERY well established CH import if you go that route.

Best of luck!

Matt

Thanks Jordan,

That was what I was after.

~Rebecca
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1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)

Well, lets see.

Baby Borneos CAN be nippy, but usually calm down quickly with regular handling. I've had an adult or two arrive here and be nippy, but all mine are now tame and easy to handle.

My adults are 3' for males, 4' for females. I have seen 5' Borneos. They are heavy bodied snakes rather than long.

Most of mine are good feeders. My babies feed on thawed rats weekly, adults don't seem to want to eat more than once a month. So I guess you could say some adults are "problem feeders" but as mine have never lost weight doing their fasting, I don't consider it a problem.

Humidity is one of the most overstated things for these guys! I only mist mine when they first go into shed, but I also use plastic tubs and boaphile caging, which keeps the humidity just fine. The newspaper is dry, but the enclosure humidity is 50%. If they get too wet, skin infections can happen.

>>I read several of the posts on here, especially the one just 2 or three before mine here, where some guys were asking for (and
getting) some good info on Blood Pythons.
>>
>>I am really interested in the Borneo Short Tails. Does anyone have any info on them - like if there IS anything that is important to note in their differences from Bloods?
>>
>>My questions would be are they nippier, or calmer, get bigger, stay smaller, fussier feeders, easier feeders, etc. and so forth?
>>
>>Also, would they be for me? I am fascinated with them, but I can recognize that that doesn't mean I would necessarily enjoy keeping them as much as I may think. I keep hearing things about how humid these guys MUST be kept... but then I hear about people keeping them on dry newspaper and doing just fine. So what do they really need?
>>
>>As for my established preferences, I only have some Ball Pythons and a Dumeril's Boa right now - but I grew up keeping a sizeable colubrid collection, along with the odd boa or python or so... and am only now convinvcing my husband that lots of snakes are cool. When I say "sizeable" I mean between my dad and I, we had over 88 animals at one point... I didn't count the hatchling ratsnakes we were waiting to sell at that time. We maintained our collection for about 8 years. Anyhow, my point is, I have a lot more experience than my current collection would indicate. I've always liked the look of the Bloods, but was always steered away because everybody tells me they are difficult. Now that I am fascinated with the Borneos, does anybody have some more advice?
>>
>>~Rebecca
>>-----
>>1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
>>0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
>>0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)
-----
http://www.lowergroundreptiles.net/

Please forgive me for another flood of questions.

chaoscat, you said "humidity is one of the most overstated things for these guys! I only mist mine when they first go into shed, but I also use plastic tubs and boaphile caging, which keeps the humidity just fine. The newspaper is dry, but the enclosure humidity is 50%. If they get too wet, skin infections can happen."

As I haven't yet bought any boaphile cages - mine are all in fish tanks with home made mesh lids, and with newspaper for substrate - I am curious what you do to keep your humidity around 50%. I am still experimenting with some different set ups to keep my Dumeril's Boa happy, and she doesn't seem to mind. Are you setting the water bowl directly on top of the hot spot? I have heard these guys need fresh water all the time. Are you heating primarily with under-tank-type heat sources (i.e. flexwatt) and do you bother with heat lamps at all? About how much area of the cage surface allows for air circulation?

You said you use newspaper for your substrate, do you have a favorite material to make a hide for these guys? I prefer terra cotta flower pots for my BPs, but I can't see that working so well for a BST since they are SO heavy-bodied! I would have to carve most of the side of the flower pot away just so they could get inside, and then they probably wouldn't feel very secure. I give my Dumeril's Boa about two or three inches of Spanish Moss on top of her newspaper substrate, and she loves to hide in that. I've seen lots of pics of Bloods and Borneos in Spanish and/or sphagnum moss. Any comments on the pros/cons there?

Thanks for all your info before.
~Rebecca
-----
1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)

I've never used aquariums for any of my bloods, so I wouldn't be able to help with that You might try putting a towel over 1/3 of the top and moisten it daily, or you could cover 1/3 of the top with a sheet of plexi?

I don't ever set the water bowl over the hot spot-doing so could give bacteria a home to grow and spread.

I also do not recommend heat lamps for anything other than desert animals-heat lamps tend to suck the humidity right out of the air, as do ceramic heat units. I suggest for overhead heating overheat heat panels. They are expensive, but are worth it for animals needing humidity over dryness.

I don't use spanish moss, or any moss with mine unless the females are getting ready to lay and then I use Pacific Green moss. Hell, most of mine don't even have hide boxes! In my shelf type setup, the back part of each plastic bin is dark enough for them. When I do use hide boxes, I use gladware containers with moist paper towel and just replace the paper towel when it becomes soiled. Moss will often hide poop and pee-thus providing yet another home for bacteria.

>>Please forgive me for another flood of questions.
>>
>>chaoscat, you said "humidity is one of the most overstated things for these guys! I only mist mine when they first go into shed, but I also use plastic tubs and boaphile caging, which keeps the humidity just fine. The newspaper is dry, but the enclosure humidity is 50%. If they get too wet, skin infections can happen."
>>
>>As I haven't yet bought any boaphile cages - mine are all in fish tanks with home made mesh lids, and with newspaper for substrate - I am curious what you do to keep your humidity around 50%. I am still experimenting with some different set ups to keep my Dumeril's Boa happy, and she doesn't seem to mind. Are you setting the water bowl directly on top of the hot spot? I have heard these guys need fresh water all the time. Are you heating primarily with under-tank-type heat sources (i.e. flexwatt) and do you bother with heat lamps at all? About how much area of the cage surface allows for air circulation?
>>
>>You said you use newspaper for your substrate, do you have a favorite material to make a hide for these guys? I prefer terra cotta flower pots for my BPs, but I can't see that working so well for a BST since they are SO heavy-bodied! I would have to carve most of the side of the flower pot away just so they could get inside, and then they probably wouldn't feel very secure. I give my Dumeril's Boa about two or three inches of Spanish Moss on top of her newspaper substrate, and she loves to hide in that. I've seen lots of pics of Bloods and Borneos in Spanish and/or sphagnum moss. Any comments on the pros/cons there?
>>
>>Thanks for all your info before.
>>~Rebecca
>>-----
>>1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
>>0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
>>0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)
-----
http://www.lowergroundreptiles.net/

So these guys basically thrive best in a large rack system? I kinda suspected they might.

Well, someday when I can afford just the right setup, I'll have to look at them again.

For now, I'm still having fun with my BPs and my Dum. What I have been doing to keep humidity in with my Dum is I have a very thin sheet of plexiglass-like material (we found it at Lowes) over the mesh lid. My husband was all kinds of happy to come up with a way to cut that to fit... which led to the discovery that the stuff is miserable to work with, so it's ugly but it works. Hence the "experimenting" I was talking about.

Thanks to everyone for all of your informative responses!

~Rebecca

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1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Orange Hypo, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)

Rebecca,

Bloods do very well in rubbermaid containers actually. They are even cheaper than glass tanks and you can get adult sized ones over the net for about $30. Some people have brought up bloods in tanks, but it's easier and cheaper to just use rubbermaids, they just don't look as pretty. I definately agree that you should wait until you are financially stable to make a snake purchase, but I thought I would let you know about alternatives to expensive rack systems. You might want to consider something like this for your other snakes as well if your having problems with the tanks.

Jordan
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior