Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I look at the classifieds all the time and I've always wondered who buys the the HUGE lots of normal ball pythons from africa (100-1000 snake lots)? I'm assuming that these huge lots are all "cherry-picked" for anything abnormal so there's no chance of finding a new morph or anything like that... so who are these big importers advertising to? Said differently, who wants hundreds of CH ball pythons that are far more likely to have problems than CB snakes?

I'm just trying to figure out why someone would buy upwards of 1000 CH ball pythons... especially since there seems to be so many CB ball pythons for sale at good prices.

Thoughts?

If you buy early, there's NO difference between CH and CB!! MANY of these will be sold as CB, they're not but will be sold as such!!

i understand that CH are more troublesome than CB but what i wana know is why? what are the reasons that these hatchlings act so differently if they were both introduced to the world in captivity?

These animals are hatched in farms in Africa - they hatch , thrown in a huge crate and shipped to the US. A lot of them die on the way - those that don't usually arrive dehydrated, some carry parasites either internal or external. And these are the ones that are fresh shipped hatchlings. The stress during shipping often puts them off feed for longer than necessary and a baby ball doesn't have that much in fat reserves to compensate for all this. They have a tendancy to regurge and alot die after several months.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.34.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizards of unknown origin

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Edited on May 3, 2006 at 17:02:02 by phwyvern.

If you take the time to buy from someone that sets all of their imports up in seperate tubs and properly monitors them and gets them feeding and estabished prior to shipping them off - then these guys are as good as any CB baby - but there are a lot of people that will just throw large groups in tubs and sell them prior to getting them established - the end result is cr@p.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.34.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizards of unknown origin

_____

signature area

Edited on May 3, 2006 at 17:02:17 by phwyvern.

I have to agre and disagree....IF they are shipped prior to or in thier first shed..they are golden!!! Once they have shed and are starting to sit around for ANY length of time without being fed.... they "turn to crap....quick"!!!! Like the majority that will be coming in, in a couple of weeks!!!

Have you ever bought any?? Alot may die if you don't know what your doing!! When they come in during or beore their first sheds and you get them setup properly, they do as good as ANY CB!! Unless, again, you don't know what your doing!!

thanks for making this so much clearer. sorry for my inexperience i always thought CH meant the mother was WC and gravid and she would lay (in captivity)and the hatchlings where then called CH.thanks again for making this so much clearer.

Tosha,

Have you ever personally imported large quantities? I have. I have imported thousands at a time and had awesome success with them. The babies that arrive before their first shed or right after do as well as any c.b.b. animals out there. We have also experienced a high percentage (probably close to 90%)of these starting to feed within days of their first shed. Now the problems start to arise when the babies sit there (in Africa) in large bins for extended periods of time. The main problem is when the importers wait to get them cheaper. The longer they sit the higher risk of them arriving and having problems. Now for your statement "A lot of them die on the way" I have never received a high mortality rate of Balls (any size) during transit. As a matter of fact the only time I have ever had any large number of deaths is a one shipment of 300 animals that came from Ghana very late in the season because the exporter was waiting to get them cheap as well. She did not have a farm any longer and was purchasing from farms and waited way too long to get them and send them to me. Of course she sat on my money from before hatching season started.

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Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.rkreptiles.net
www.oldworldchameleons.com
www.ballpythonmorphs.net
www.beardedragons.com

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True, I only have 24 of them. But I did buy a couple of 12 lots of c.h. last year, too. Got them feeding well, and then sold them. So out of about 50 c.h., I have only had a problem with one baby. All others have done great. Not a huge sample, but a pretty good success rate.

Plus, since I know I will eventually be doing at least some inbreeding, I will be starting out with all unrelated animals. That was one of the reasons I wanted to start with c.h. females in the first place. So far I have been very happy with them.

CH aren't any more "troublesome" than CB. You would have the same problems with CB IF they were "exposed" to the same conditions as the CH are over the next few weeks.

is there money to be made in raising up 100s of normal babies? are females just always in demand? do large petstore chains buy these lots?

i'm just trying to figure out who has the time, space, and money to raise hundreds of normal ball pythons...

There are hundreds, and yes I said Hundreds of people who purchase these "farm raised" babies every year, in very large lots.
Some buy them and re-sell them in a short term. Some house them for six months or more, and sell them in the "off season".
You are asking why? Supply and Demand.... Money....
Are these animals dieased, stress, not worth buying? That is all non-sense. I would say that 90% make it in, and do well in captivity. Say that about any other imported speices?
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Ron Billingsley
www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com

Lots of people. I just got 100 today and ordered another 200 for Mon. A BP breeder can never have enough females, especially when it's new blood!!

I just bought 200 myself. 112 females and 88 males. Not bad huh? Fed them thier first meal today. About 80% ate no problem. Lot of work but worth it. I'm very excited and look forward to every feeding. got a few definate keepers. Yellow bellies, Black backs, Granites, and some really nice orange colors. Wish I could have bought more.

wow so youre telling me that you were able to get granites and yellow bellies out of 200 snakes?! Are these morphs that common? where you really lucky? or did you get to pick the ones you wanted?
This CH lot buying doesnt seem like such a bad idea anymore.
If you dont mind me asking how do you guys get hooked up like this?

It's not uncommon and fairly regular that you find granites, gold stripes, black stripes, bandeds, "reduced patterns". Yellowbellies are found but not if they have been picked through!! The most important thing is you get UNSORTED animals. Not saying you'll get anything "special", but chances are better!! I found only 2 yellowbellies in 400!!
ANYBODY that says they are going to not pick through them but rehydrate them is full of crap! I've heard this alot this year. It's total BS, I don't care who they are!!

ch lots are the only way to go. for good future breeders. the majority of my animals are ch. get them before they ever shed or shortly there after. they are just as healthy cbb. besides, you never know what you may get. i recieved a cinnamon in a 50 lot in 03, and turned around and got a black pastel in a 100 lot in 04. also a yellow belly in 05. best $19.50 i ever spent. thats $6.50 each. can't beat that. not even counting the females. going to get my next 100 in the morning.
the trick is not to deal with ball people. go to the shows and find the dealers / wholesalers with large quantities. some of them will actually have unopened crates and bags behind there tables. these are the people you want to deal with. buy you a couple of bags and pretend its christmas morning. you never know what you may get. pick out the choice animals, sell the rest and you've got quality future breeders for next to nothing. or you can go pay a hundred dollars a piece for the same animals else where. i vote for the cheaper route.

jamie joe

And everyone wins.....except the snakes raped from nature and the ones at the "bottom of the barrels" that are crushed in transit.

COOL! Animal welfare is for the birds anyways.

but it is ok to keep animals confined to shoe boxes and kill rodents to feed to them. lets not forget about all the animals raised for slaughter either. so unless your a strict vegetarian member of PETA i don't want to hear it and then i still don't want to hear it.

How do they get "crushed in transit"??? Ever bought unopened crates?? Don't think so!!!

thats awesome advice thanks for posting that. definately going that route.

We just got 300 in thursday night, they are all set up in there own boxes with hide spots and water dishes, and look great. We will get another 200 or so, in a week or 2 when I fly down to florida to hand pick. Lots of nice animals for good prices this way. We sold a c.h new line pastel female last year that we paid $8.00 for so there is a lot of cool stuff, you just need to let them color up first. As far as them being stressed and not feeding that is crap.We bought 250 last year and only lossed 4 hard bellies. They rest were perfect. It all has to do with how they are taken care of when they come in. Unpacked and soaked, then shipped to you, set up indivitually, and they are golden. Just my 2 cents