Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok.. mainly for you two since you have helped me along this far but anyone that knows, feel free to buzz in please.
If I want to use vinyl on the floor of my wooden cage I am building, what would be the best method os securing it down? Glue, Staples, Nails, Epoxy, something else?

Also.. What would you guys suggest as the best way to connect the two 5'x30" cages together? My bud and I have come up with a couple of ways, but wondering if maybe you know something we didnt think of.
Thanks again for all info/help, and reading this.

>>Ok.. mainly for you two since you have helped me along this far but anyone that knows, feel free to buzz in please.
>>If I want to use vinyl on the floor of my wooden cage I am building, what would be the best method os securing it down? Glue, Staples, Nails, Epoxy, something else?

Are we talking vinyl film or linoleum? It makes a huge difference, as most films can be applied like a sticker to finished wood. Linoleum is better attached with contact cement or adhesive. Nails, staples, or screws really defy the point in the first place.

>>Also.. What would you guys suggest as the best way to connect the two 5'x30" cages together? My bud and I have come up with a couple of ways, but wondering if maybe you know something we didnt think of.

I would use a forstner bit to create a counter sunk hole and machine bolt the two halves together. Again I forgot what size ply you used but I would defenetly bolt it but there are other options. Feel free to share your idea.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
0.1 Albino RTB -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's -Coming Soon-
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

Thanks bighurt..

>>Are we talking vinyl film or linoleum?

Either, is there one that would be better for a wooden enclosure for a burm?

>>I would use a forstner bit to create a counter sunk hole and machine bolt the two halves together. Again I forgot what size ply you used but I would defenetly bolt it but there are other options. Feel free to share your idea.

Forstner bit? I would assume this is some kind of drill bit? Machine bolt the two halves? I am totally lost here, lol Maybe guy who is helping knows what you mean, but not me. I wont see him until Sunday. The wood is 1/2inch Russian Birch. And 2x2 frame. Below is a picture of the two halves sitting beside each other.

If I want to use vinyl on the floor of my wooden cage I am building, what would be the best method os securing it down? Glue, Staples, Nails, Epoxy, something else?

I would not puncture the vinyl with nails or staples. Last time I used construction adhesive and it worked well. The best thing would be the adhesive designed for vinyl flooring but there really is no sense in buying some for such a small project.

Also.. What would you guys suggest as the best way to connect the two 5'x30" cages together?

I would also cover the inside frame where the two halves bolt together with vinyl. Then drill holes and use carriage bolts and washers to hold the two halves together. The bolts will sink into the vinyl a bit and hold pretty well, making a nearly water-tight seal.

I would probably also make a gasket from scrap vinyl flooring to fit between the two halves.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

Thanks for tips..
And one more question, what do you guys suggest I coat the wood with inside? I have a brand new can of minwax polyuethane, would this work? Thanks again!

Before I forget, I recommend sealing the wooden floor before applying the vinyl. Just a double layer of protection.

What Minwax Polyurethane do you have exactly? If it's oil-based I would proceed with extreme caution. With current VOC regulartions Minwax and other companies have had to greatly reduce the solvent concentration in the oil-based products. It's a long explanation, but this makes it very fussy to apply and actually increases how long the product offgasses. I know it seems backwards, but less solvent in these products means they actually release solvent longer. The reason being is that the coat goes on too thick and a thick skin is formed and the solvent can't escape properly. Not good for a snake cage.

You'll be able to tell if it's oil-based by what they recommend for thinning it and/or for cleanup. If they recommend mineral spirits, turpentine, or basically anything other than water then it's oil based.

Oil based polys offer an incredible amount of protection for the money but they offgass for years. No kidding. You're not even supposed to use them on the inside of kitchen cabinets that will store dishes. I just don't recommend them anymore for reptile cages. Also, they turn a yellowish color when they cure that looks terrible on light woods like your russian baltic birch. They are better suited for darker woods.

But back to your question, I think a water-based polyurethane would be best but I'd recommend covering the first few inches of the cage walls with vinyl flooring. This will be tough with your interior frame. A WB poly will dry clear and look great on the birch.

If you absolutely must go to a Home Depot like store then I think Varathanes WB poly is better than Minwax's Polycrylic.

But in general woodworking specialty stores will have better products than Home Depot or Lowes.

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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I have to agree with Chris, WB is the way to go. I myself use Varathane poly WB, while its not the best product on the market I find it is pretty close. Its easy to find local availability is another plus. I use it for all my cages and have not a single complaint.

Going back to the fastening them together question. I perfer to hide my bolts for the clean look, with 1/2 ply this is nearly impossible. So my origional suggestion of the forstner bit was unwarrented, it won't work anyways.

A carriage bolt by the way is a type of machine bolt/screw. I guess my goverment job sometimes takes over and the proper nomenclature for parts slips out. My bad! By the way did you know the proper name for a Zipper is "Interlocking Slide Fastener", of which there are 8 types!

Take care
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
0.1 Albino RTB -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's -Coming Soon-
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

Jeremy,

His cage has a 2x2 interior frame so countsinking the bolt head will work.

The reason I did not suggest that was I felt it would be easier to make a water-tight seal with the method I suggested.

In all actuality the best approach would combine both. Use my method for the bottom of the cage where a water-tight seal is warranted and will be covered by substrate anyways. The create a recessed area on the vertical frame and ceiling frame with a forstner bit so the heads and nuts can be counter-sunk.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

Chris,

Personally I would have bolted the cage together than applied the vinyl over the bolt holes. Later on it could be cut so the cage could be unbolted. However that is only because I don't move to often.

I agree your method for the lower portion where water tight is really needed, is a good idea. Comprimising and using both ideas is real good idea, it never crossed my mind to use both.

I didn't realize he used a frame work, more like I forgot. I think the forstner bits are a great addition to a collection unfortunatly I only own one. Better not tell the wife!

By the way I finally have recieved all my snakes I was waiting for. Have not yet taken any pics but the girls are little pigs thankfully. I also probed my unusually snake, its a male. I am actually considering attempting a late season breeding between him and my Suriname female. Really interested to see what offspring he will throw. If only I had some larger females that demonstrated morphs.

Here he is!

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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

However that is only because I don't move to often.

I think that's really what it boils down to. I vaguely remember him being concerned about moving the cage so I leaned towards making it simple and repeatable.

Good luck with those snakes. I'm certain friends of mine have had Boas breed in April so I say go for it.

I'll try to send an email next week. I have an awards banquet tomorrow so I'm pretty busy.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

Ok..
Well I got the viewing windows, and doors ready to be placed. It started to rain on us so didn't get alot done as we were working outside. I am concerned still about the bolting the cages together. I am totally lost on what both of you suggested. Forgive my ignorance please.

>>I would also cover the inside frame where the two halves bolt together with vinyl. Then drill holes and use carriage bolts and washers to hold the two halves together. The bolts will sink into the vinyl a bit and hold pretty well, making a nearly water-tight seal.

Ok, I think I got this, but you mean lay the vinyl over the frame boards, then drill/screw through that? or did you mean something else? And if this IS what you meant, wouldn't the snake rub his nose or eyes against them and possibly cause harm to himself? I suppose I could cover those on the bottom with mulch or substrate, but what about the sides, and top?
Thank you much again for all of your help, and I will probably bug ya some more later. lol

Ok, I think I got this, but you mean lay the vinyl over the frame boards, then drill/screw through that?

Yes. I would cover the floor with vinyl and at least the first part of the lower 2x2 frame. The frame design is going to make things a bit more difficult when it comes to sealing. You might be able to mold Bondo or another type of body filler where the walls of the cage meet the lower frame rail, although this may not look good with a clear coat over it.

I wish I had a sketchup program or something. This is where a picture is worth a thousand words.

I don't know if I have a great solution for you. If I had known you were going to use an interior frame I would have recommended ripping a 45* bevel onto the 2x2's. The only time I used an interior frame this is how I did it. It worked well be I regretted the frame.

Regardless, I would not be worried about a snake injuring itself on the typical carriage bolt head or nut. However, they do make round-headed bolts which would be safer. There are also options with the nuts, you'll just have to shop around.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I used liquid nails for attaching my plastic floors to my wooden ones. You just have to make sure you have something to hold the plastic down (ie. weights or rocks)...the liquid nails worked great and it wasnt expensive at all..good luck...
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(soon to be the owner of an albino ball)
0.2 normal ball pythons
0.2 normal Redtail boa
1.0 Hypo Redtail boa
1.0 true Redtail boa
1.1 100% Het Albino Redtail boa
1 baby sulcata tortoise
0.0.1 Baby Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Baby Red Uromastyx
0.1 GF Eryn (WC)

If you use adhesive to hold down the plastic, I recommend something like Henry's FRP cement or similar contact cement. Liquid nails or other tube adhesives are hard to get smooth the for mentioned products may provide a better adhesion/appearance.
Just a thought.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-