Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Dear Friends

Anyone who is interested in participating in a self sustaining relocation effort of about 10000 of Ctenosaura similis Sp Sp from town of Boca Grande on Gasparilla Island in Florida please contact me.......If you are a trapper in Florida we need your help in a rescue effort before the town allows erradication as an invasive species.....we need to relocate and breed a species that really hasnt been seen in the Reptile Breeders area for some time since Mexico closed down export....more can be read about the difficulty on www.bocabeacon.com the local newspaper.....the have established an Iguana tax to deal with removal of the animals from their town......pictures of can be seen on www.westcoastiguana.com

If we put together trappers with reptile supply houses in Miami and then demand is created by response to the need for breeders the rescue program will be self sustaining with no need to kill the Ctenosaura population that are on the island

If you have need of breeders.....one male to three females or if you are trapper in the Miami area please contact me so that we can get the relocation process accelerated

hope this works

Take Care

Kevin Schneider
Iguana Rescue of Southern California
20683 Tumeric Way
Jamul CA 91935

619-468-9148

It is actually on the west coast, a lot closer to Tampa. It is about half way from south to north. If you are looking for trappers, I would recommend looking for them throughout florida.
I would be glad to help though I am not a professional trapper.
I am pretty good at inovating to catch those tricky lizards. I can slap together a noose or make a debris hook pretty quick but i prefer to make them before hand so they are better quality.
I am currently working on a noose for the larger iggys for next time i go down there. I am using soft cotton rope that has a large diameter to prevent hurting them.
The larger iguanas tend to hang out around the anti-erosion rock piles by the beach. They have easy and quick access to cover and are impossible to catch without tools there. Also, a noose will only hold one in place so another person can grab it when dealing with adults. Otherwise, you risk injuring the lizard.
Surprisingly, on gasparilla, you see very few iggys in the trees. The young ones like to hang out around logs with holes in them and thick brush. The medium-large sized iggys that aren't near the beach use gopher tortoise burrows, thick brush, and human structures.
I have seen them in trees and on fences. It is just not as common.

Matt

Thanks for reply and offer to help......there are reptile supply houses in Miami and Ocala area of Florida that I have found who pay $7 for juveniles and $10 for adults......they also have the approval from FedEx to ship overnight.....tighter restrictions on shipping make it imperative to get the rescued Ctenosaura to a Reptile Supply company that has been approved for shipping overnight........you are right on with the soft nooses...when I trapped for a local reptile supply company here in California I used a 12 foot fly pole with about a 4 foot noose on the end....soft thread fishing line instead of monofiliment forms to back of skull on lizards and doesnt cut them......if you have any poisonous snakes in your capture area carry pepper spray with you on belt for rattlesnakes or copperheads as the pepper spray will temporarly blind there sight and heat perception and will wear off in about 30 minutes.....better than being bitten.......can get at any law enforcement uniform shop

Let me know if these next two capture methods might work.....hoop net.....made from hula hoop and nylon aviary neeting for igs that drop from trees

block holes 24 inches inside hole with wadded up burlap bag after they leave burrow in the morning.....then before they get to hot chase them back to burrow.......and with gloves grab both thighs and tail at base of tail only and drag out.....once out cover head with another burlap bag and put in carrier

Third method would be to go to South Beach Bar and Grill at south end of island where manager told me to come by with truck and take as many as I wanted as they feed them there every day so they gather there and are familiar with humans

what do you think.........If you can get them to a reptile supply house in Miami you have a business going for you..catching 10 juveniles an hour is good money and you would be saveing lives

If you want to do some of this work and to send to California contact me at aumshininglotus@aol.com and we can talk more about how to organize rescue effort.....can also send me your telephone number and I will call you

hope this helps

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

seems to me all you are doing is moving the problem from Bocca Grande to indivdual homes through out the country. From there they will end up at your house and Jif's. I am all for giving them to people who think they can care for them. The term "relocation" seems far-fetched. As terrible as it sounds destroying them is probably the best answer. Ooh I will probably get it for that last sentence but isnt there enough of a problem with green iguanas in the pet trade.

Joel, I agree. I stated my fears to this same post on the Green Iguana forum. In my limited experience the WC Florida similis that I have encountered have not acclimated well to captivity and socializing efforts. They would fare better in a sanctuary type situation than in the pet trade. I also feel that adult animals introduced into the pet trade could be quite dangerous if they come into the hands of inexperienced handlers.

Dear Freinds

your fears are unwarranted.......the adults would be sent only to breeders in sanctuary situations.......the breeders would be given the opportunity to keep one male with 3 or more females...the breeder would have option to freeze eggs as they are layed to stop overproduction.......what is one experienced herpetologists pet rattlesnake can be another persons nighmare however many love their pet cobras and pet rattlesnakes........and again those who are responding to my request to act arent sitting around cerebralizeing on what migh happen and what their fears are.......there is a principal of Fearless Life that Self Empowers one to change the world....all it takes is rolling up your sleeves and going to work with a reasonable plan.........no drama........just go to work and solve the problem and move on........many reading this understand and dont say anything in public......many who dont understand and dont act to benefit the situation presented you will see writting about their fears and concerns

hope this helps

Wishing you and Family the Best

Kevin Schneider
Iguana Rescue Southern California

My fears are not unwarranted. I'm already seeing similis in rescue. I challenge you to find breeders that are willing to devote space to, feed, and maintain, a group or groups of similis only to destroy their eggs. Breeders do what they do to supply animals that are in demand and to ultimately make a profit. They are not sanctuaries, charities, or rescues. I cannot understand how you are going to create a demand for several thousand of these lizards without them becoming boots or stew.

I'm happy for you that you have found something to crusade for. If you accomplish what you are proposing you will gain my utmost respect.

I also ask that you resist disrespecting others until you have a complete picture of who they are and what they do. I've already rolled up my sleeves and taken on a monumental task... one that wouldn't be necessary if there weren't so many irresponsible pet owners in this country. Many of the good folks that post here have contributed greatly to conservation and responsible breeding programs.

Your response really does not deserve an answer....however here goes.........I asked for participation from othes to act in a responsible reasonable manner.........didnt ask for whining drama or comments that limit action......there is a saying from the East.........If you think it cant be done you need to get out of my way as I am already doing it.......from my perspective you seem to be a young person who is inexperienced in the general principles of Evolution of Flora and Fauna of the Planet as a whole that is outside your front door....Good Luck and hopeing you are able to learn more about responsible action instead of sitting and attracting attention by whining drama......then as said before.......you can move on and really be some help to those in need....Wishing you and Family the Best

Kevin Schneider
Iguana Rescue Southern California

If Joel won't respond to your post I certainly will. Joel is far from being a young person with no clue. He has made some valuable contributions to important conservation efforts. He understands that reptile rescues across the country are overflowing with iguanas, mostly Iguana iguana but we are seeing Ctenosaura recently and even Cyclura. If you succeed with your relocation project I can anticipate the intake of some of the animals that you will have captured.

Thank you for your reply......yes joel does have a great family unit of Reptiles he is working with......my response to any message is specific to the format and information presented in the message that was sent.....since answers cannot be based on unkowns they can only be based on comments presented at the moment....there is a mesage to him on the Iguana forum that shows seperation of issues and agreeance on specifics mentioned in his message there......when we get the relocation effort underway will post on both forums so those who are interested can participate if they wish

Wishing you and Family the Best

Kevin Schneider

Kevin. I did not attack you, just your plan. You know nothing about me. I am very well educated in iguana conservation. I have done more to help iguanas and cyclura than you will probably ever do. Sitting and doin nothing? I have been all over central Amer. and the Caribbean. I am going back to Cayman for the 3rd time next week to help save a species.
If a post on the forum is in your way, you are on the wrong path. So you give the cten. to a breeder. What do they do, breed em' sell them to whom? They are already breed by the private sector. If people wanted them they would have them and there would be more breeders of them. There is no demand for them. Sounds like you want to create demand. In a couple years we will hear you whining about all the iguanas and cten. that you are stuck with at the rescue. I applaud your passion, I think your plan is not practical.

Dear Friend

I answered your message directly with an answer based only on the known facts of what was in your message and I answered what you wrote in a proper reasonable fashion.......if you re read your message it doesnt show the level of education that your present message shows.....no harm no foul......My past work in Aviculture also led me to countries of origin to try and protect species

Its OK that you dont think a relocation plan is feasable for this Species......is already in motion and eggs do not have to be hatched........adults can be kept and eggs do not have to be hatched....dont know how many times I have to say this before it gets through........program combined with public education worked in southern california for Macaws and Parrots that were free flight and getting killed by hawks and cars and electricuted on high voltage wires and being shot by citizens........same kind of situation in Boca Grande........and same kind of program will work as it did here.......the words in your first message didnt show much encouragement for positive outcome or action to resolve the issue of Boca Grande...... and the words in your second message show a 180 degree turnaround specific to understanding and action for other rarer species.........it looks like we are on the same track in many ways.........based on your second message I commend you for your efforts and wish you the best for Success with the programs you are involved with......specific to anyone not wanting Ctenosaura similis......they didnt want cobras either till someone showed them at a Reptile Breeders show..they didnt want rattlesnakes until someone started to explore thier natural history and breed them privately like the Gila Monsters.......what I am saying is keep the pet trade out of the picture and stay with the Breeder Societies that are more educated to act with responsibility according to guidlines of the Zoo and Aquarium Association that monitors Zoo activity in the US

Wishing you and Family the Best

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

kevin, nice back pedal. My first reply is and was an educated view you just didnt know it at the time. Ctenos are hardly macaws and parrots. I dont know how to explain it more than I did. You posted, I posted, we disagree. Good luck with your plan.

As a reptile breeder myself, much different field of reptiles, why the hell would i receive a group of animals that 1) I don't want 2) are psychotic and 3) have no market or value monitarily speaking when i can work with a much more endangered species (we can speculate here on all the various species of iguana that are not doing very well, i think you all can guess which ones I'm talking about here) that will fund the production and rehabillation with the sale of a few individuals. Would it make any sense at all to breed animals that no one wants and do not adjust to captivity or that do not fetch their dollars worth? Not at all. So why would i waste my time on it when i have other species available to me that allow all concerns to be addressed?

Think a little more clearly before you vocalize concerns over a species that honestly, doesn't need rehabing but needs population control.

good day.

I have tried to do something similar to what you are thinking of doing, but the truth is that C. Similis is imported by the thousands each year. The imported price of a baby is about $4.
A wholesaler will not pay more than $5 for a baby and $10-$20 for perfect Adults in limited quantities. I can go out and catch 20 to 30 adults per week and countless babies during the hatching period, but believe me, they are not an easy animal to take care of or sell. Adults are very aggressive and require individual care. They are not even close to the type of husbandry that a bird requires. Babies require mandatory UVB and crickets or they will die. If you find your self holding 20 to 30 adult Similis at any given time you will have a mess. The iguanas will just be suffering and may die a slow and inhumane death.

The population on Boca Grande are not C.Pectinata nor are they Hybrids. These iguanas were misidentified years. I myself went there and confirmed that they are similis by counting scales and by visual identification over 30 individuals of various sizes, sexes and from different locations within the island were observed. If they were C. Pectinata I could see where they would move much faster, but at the magnitude of what the present population is for Similis, even C. Pectinata would become a problem unloading once the market is flooded.

What can be done is to find some good contacts over seas e.g: Japan, Germany, etc. Maybe even consider shipping them back to the breeders in South America? Most of the C. Similis and Pectinatas I sell are exported.

I would not mind going out to collect on Boca Grande. I am confident that in less than one year I could put a huge dent in the population, But Boca Grande is about 300 miles away from where I live and it would be economically difficult for me unless I was to be compensated in addition to what a wholesaler would pay if the demand was not increased. And one thing to remember, You will never get rid of all of them since a lot of them are on private land and some property owners like to see them. You can only control them.

Everybody has a different view on this issue. Most people have valid points. But the truth of the matter is that there is a problem that is going to eventually be resolved one way or another and the only ones that will suffer are the Iguanas.
We do not need to be bickering amongst or disrespecting each other and getting all wound up because of an individual's view. Maybe a little brain storming amongst us interested, educated, non-educated, and soon to be educated Ctenosaura enthusiasts would be better than being divided with horse blinders..

If you can find a responsible demand I can supply. If you find a responsible demand and I cannot supply, I can train some one who can.

Manny

Nicely put, Manny. You and Joel both hit the nail on the head. There is no demand for C. similis. For most herp enthusiasts they are undesirable. Kevin clearly stated on the Iguana forum that we have to create the demand.

quote
"We have a self supporting rescue effort going into place combineing trappers and reptile supply houses in Miami area with article in Reptile magazine.....now all we need is demand from the Iguana Breeders and keepers in the US

This is a unique species that can be saved from being trapped and euthanized if there is a demand....anyone interested in a really unique species that has not been generally seen in this country since Mexico stopped exportation please contact me so we can build the demand for juveniles to adult breeders"

I consider myself fairly active in the online iguana community. I don't see a demand for C. similis. Speaking as a rescue, I've had exactly 2 adoption applications in the last 10 years for a similis. Only one of those 2 applicants was a suitable candidate to keep an adult animal. I have to agree that if the lizards in question were pectinata, acanthura, or conspicuosa there would be a market.

As a breeder would you be willing to house, feed, and maintain a group of animals only to destroy their eggs?

I've yet to hear a reasonable plan (or one that won't offend someone) to solve the problem of the iguanas on Boca Grande. My honest feeling is that trapping and humanely euthanizing is a better ending for these animals than some of the other options.

Although his motives are well intentioned, the truth is exactly what Jane, Joel, and Manny stated. There is little demand for a wild and ill tempered lizards. If similis was a calm gentle species, it may be different. Of the five strict iguana breeders in the U.S., I know none of them want to use up valuable cage space for a common ill tempered species when that same cage space can be used for rarer or more valuable animals.
Also, cramming a large group of flighty stressed out similis into an enclosure is a recipe for disaster. They are better of just being culled just like other species that over populate.
I think the water monitor situation in florida needs to be dealt with soon. These lizards are doing much more damage to the native wildlife (if there is any left) than the iguanas.

I think the water monitor situation in Florida needs to be dealt with soon. These lizards are doing much more damage to the native wildlife (if there is any left) than the iguanas.

I agree about the Nile Monitor situation. They definitely do way more damage than the Similis do. I caught a 5ft Crock Monitor here a few months ago. It was eating a raccoon.

Hmmmmm... I guess it's pretty lucky for them that I don't have much interest in Monitors ..Lol

I knew about the nile monitors. I had no idea water and croc monitors lived here.
If anyone feels like disclosing a general area where they are found, I would really appreciate it. Sorry I'm asking, I just have to. I mean... water and croc monitors??? I know that from an ecological standpoint, this is a serious problem, but there is a part of me that is like "AWSOME!!! I'M A GONNA GO CATCH ME A CROC MONITOR!"
So anyway, I would be really interested in checking it out.

The population of Monitors in Cape Coral is mostly Nile Monitors. There could be Water Monitors mixed in there, but the majority are Niles. There is so much stuff running loose around here that if you hunt long enough you will run into something weird, but it does not mean that it is one out of a colony.

For the most part, Water Monitors and Croc Monitors are not established. I think the Croc Monitor I caught was an escapee or one that was deliberately set free.

Here's a tip on finding places to collect exotics. Find out locations where Importers of reptiles are stationed or were stationed and collect around those areas. That is where I started and I collected all sorts of stuff like: Spectacle Caiman, Smoothfront Caiman, All sorts of agamids, Turles, frogs, geckos, monitors, Iguanids, milksnakes, boas, and Pythons..etc.

Good luck.

Manny