Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Dear Friends

Need some help......Boca Grande Florida on Gasparilla Island has a population of about 10000 Ctenosaur similis Sp Sp of Mexican Black Spiney Tail Iguana and they have established an Iguana Tax to remove them as an invasive species..... more at town newspaper www.bocabeacon.com

Pictures can be seen at www.westcoastiguana.com

We have a self supporting rescue effort going into place combineing trappers and reptile supply houses in Miami area with article in Reptile magazine.....now all we need is demand from the Iguana Breeders and keepers in the US

This is a unique species that can be saved from being trapped and euthanized if there is a demand....anyone interested in a really unique species that has not been generally seen in this country since Mexico stopped exportation please contact me so we can build the demand for juveniles to adult breeders

Please pass this on to any and all Reptile Enthusiasts and Societies that you might think would be interested in a rescue and relocation effort that would be self sustaining

hope this works

Kevin Schneider
Iguana Rescue of Southern California
20683 Tumeric Way
Jamul CA 91935

619-468-9148

FWIW, in my limited experience with 2 Florida WC similis, neither animal acclimated well to captivity. Both were young animals but definately not hatchlings, which may adapt better to captivity.
Maybe I'm not understanding properly but is this going to be on on-going effort, for years to come? I just don't see it being a viable solution to the problem. It's a better option than shooting, drowning, or poisoning the iguanas but I don't see it being a permanent solution.

Thanks for your reply.......understand your comments however if intent and purpose is strong enough an individual can accomplish almost anything.....if this is presented as the only acceptable alternative solution.....and if people who have the time start to get involved then the progam can be viable and permanent......all it needs is organization.....secondly humans can imprint almost any creature that has some small increment of cognitive ability and the Iguanas and Ctenosaura have this as do the Whales and Parrots and Macaws....they might be kind of low on the scale of non human primate intelligent factors however they have taken over a foriegn environment as the pacific islanders did in pre history by eating their way through the pacific islands causeing extinction of many species.....I know of few animals that cannot be imprinted with human family life if a person doesnt simply feed and watch an animal in a cage....working with Psittacines for many years if you wait till the bird needs something like water or food and you ask them what they want you start and interaction.....Macaws and Parrots are different because they are the only species on earth that will speak any language taught and they understand and will answer appropriatly if included in everyday family life...if a person keeps animals and only feeds and watches them you find a totally different animal that one who has been worked with every day........Ctenosaurus can be imprinted if worked with every day same as Iguana Iguana...you simply assume the Alpha Male position in the group with all animals...you feed by hand and you bath each day in bath tub and you handle each day....and you are the heat source for the animal..they learn really fast

hope this helps

Thanks

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

Thanks, and I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree that every animal can adapt to captivity and be socialized. In one case that I encountered a young female WC similis was captured and transported to Ohio to become a pet. This family had no experience with iguanas and soon gave up and surrendered her to rescue. With minimal daily interaction this animal became more and more stressed, hiding more, became anorexic, and it's health started to fail. A second individual that came into our possession behaved in a similar fashion.

I will agree that a well established adult animal can be quite sedentary and docile. Even my Ctolstoy, pictured here, is a joy to handle but he's been captive for 15 years. But, I've seen what his teeth can do to human flesh and the flesh of a larger iguana. I would not trust him in the hands of an inexperienced handler. I also have 2 long term captive females that would love to bite me if given the opportunity.

I guess what I am saying is that I'd hate to see the pet market flooded with animals that will either die because of the stress of being captured and kept captive or that have the potential to cause inexperienced keepers serious harm.

I also have a stray that is now eating every third day and hiding most of the day. The two strays that I took in had a very hard time adjusting.

had a suggestion for you that might help......I know you didnt ask for however will give some information that might help.....we take in strays also however here in california they are browseing each day so they are passing feces with white urate even upon arrival to Rudra Center here.............almost any animal will adapt to routine of comfort......orientation to food and heat specifically......some strays take about 3 or 4 days to adapt to a new routine that you decide for them.....general knowledge is that iguana Sp Sp cycle food in accordance with heat on a 24 hour cycle mostly........heat can be applied with red heat lamp at one end of cage...pig blanket or heated bath water........we even had bodily function of laying eggs initiated by placeing gravid female in 80 degreee bathtub of water and she layed about 44 eggs in the bathtub water of which only a small percentage were fertile......suggestion would be to put stray on a strict schedule....so she knows what to expect each day 7 days a week..heat her up with red light heat lamp at one end of cage first thing in morning at same time every morning.........give bath half hour later so when handled she is warm but not yet hot.........do this and she should drop feces and urates in bath tub if water is warm enough........then back in cage so she can regulate her body temp again on her own.......red lamp needs to be in one end of cage so she has control over her own regulation.....now that she has dropped her feces then next half hour put plate of food in front of her and leave her alone for an hour.........check on her every hour on the hour so she gets used to seeing you close up and offer her food to her mouth with your bare hand each hour......doesnt matter if she takes the food all the time.........sooner or later she will start eating from your hand as you are speaking softly to her and offering her food at arms distance....their sense of smell is refined to the point if a person has bad breath it interferes with their sense of interpreteing what food is being held in front of them.....at night start another schedule with warm bath and clean cage while she is in tub...so you leave her alone to soak each day as they take in water from both ends when soaking....we keep our new arrivals in laundry room that is temperature controled and where there is a lot of traffic each hour of day...and this combined with hourly contact and baths acclimates a stray in record time

hope this helps as most likely you already know most of this however if your stray is hideing for 3 days straight you have to bring her out of this so she can gain weight and start the shedding process each month as she grows or dehydration will set in and this combined with eating only every three days will result in going backward instead of forward......as much sun outside as she is comfortable with will help with skin organ health and she will most likely be on your shoulder in no time watching TV with you

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

Thanks for your reply.......in this message am agreeing entirely with what you are saying...you are obviously an experienced handler......I have also been bitten by adult male iguana in breeding season because I wasnt paying attention.....when they bite the scissor back and forth so that the flesh is flayed and really cant be sewed back together again.....has to be pressured and treated as large open wound till healed....Thats what makes Liveing with Dragons so interesting.....you have to be on the alert all the time you are with them.......we have a really lovable female here that changed dramatically after her first clutch of eggs and when handled now she remains the dominant femal and will bite if not held correctly when being moved however what we are talking about here is being educated to another species requirements so that proper care can be taken for both Dragons and people........in the bird trade the tragedies are even worse or as worse as with reptiles as more peoople own birds in cages than the larger reptiles and the bad stories of abuse always make more of an impression than the good stories as the good is rarely heard of.......I certainly wouldnt want to handle the Australian Crocodile Hunters "pets" however relocation of the adults is not simply to produce more babies....first priority is relocation and that will start in about 30 days....as the program gains steam more will participate until the community there says hey we need some left for eco tourism

Your Dragon Family is Immense and can only hope others will take care of the new members to their families in the same way

Wishing you and Family the Best

Kevin Schneider
Iguana Rescue Southern California

My personal opinion is getting breaders to distribute baby iguanas all over the county again is just asking for them to be returned to Florida. It is a vicious cycle. The whole problem started with the pet trade. How is the pet trade going to stop it?

Thanks for message.....understand your concern....we dont breed the Psittacines anymore either as the Pet Trade itself has killed literally generations of Macaws and Parrots through the import process.....Breeders have done the opposite....they have increased the number after the Pet Trade killed so many many present generations and therefore future generations so we have to seperate the Pet Trade and PETA from the serious Breeders for Species Survival like the different Zoos and Aquariums that have programs that continualy import to maintain some kind of control on population survival......is really not a vicious cycle that cannot be broken......with intent and purpose and organization you can accomplish eco tourism attraction in Boca Grande Community combined with rescue efforts that benefit Breeders and those who have affinity for a Ctenosaura Sp Sp that one would normally not see in this country and maybe not in Mexico in the future as in Mexico everything that can be eaten.....is eaten.........a win win situation is one of eco tourism combined with a permanent relocation program to those who can responsibly take care of what the Boca Grande community have declared nuisance animals........The human condition is such that if a situation can be created where anything can be denegrated then it is much easier to destroy that anything........the same hold true in the opposite........if you approach this situation with a pro active intent and purpose to Accomplish your goals of rescure and relocation in conjunction with eco tourism the everybody wins and destruction can take a holiday

hope this helps

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

What I am about to say may not be popular but..... Those iguanas are not pets now. They are pests to those people--getting into their gardens, attics, and even their toilets. One person's pet is another person's food or pest. Those people think of them as disease carrying--Samonella. And then the spiny tails can be quite aggressive on top of it. These iguanas have taken over the ecosystem there. There hasn't been enough predators to control their numbers. This has happened so many times in the past--animals being introduced into ecosystems that they shouldn't have. And we have not learned from the past. And I seriously do not believe we will learn in the future. I do not like seeing what is going on. And I do not like the methods being used and considered. But I don't like the methods we use to get rid of other pests either. The traps used on rats are very inhumane to me but not very many people object. Neither are the poisons that I am guilty of using. . As for this specific situation I do not think taking away their freedom to save their lives is the solution. They are not captive born iguanas who have never known freedom. They have lived free and they would not appreciate being locked up in a cage/enclosure. Even a gilded cage is still a cage. They will still be in a prison. I have always thought that life in prison was a worst punishment than than death. I wish they could be sent to where they are native and allow to live as they should.
-----
Marie
Baby, Dragon, VLS-Huff, Miss Kitty

Being sent back to their native country would be ideal, but that could introduce diseases too. The question is, would the native country except them?

This problem was caused by the pet trade and I cannot see how the pet trade is going to solve it.

Cindy

True. But the pet trade includes the irresponsible consumers too--the impulse buyers and people who believe animals are a commodity and disposable.
-----
Marie
Baby, Dragon, VLS-Huff, Miss Kitty

agree totally........however this is the human condition on this planet.....that is why public education is such a good tool to help humans learn and it works.........similar example would be the human condition that creats the need for law enforcement

Law enforcement is a maintenence program with public education manifested in many different ways to include prison and rehab however is a daily maintence program of education and enforcement and it has been shown to work if it is a consistant program of intent and purpose

Thats simply the world we live in and acceptance of what has happened in the past will free you from the past........this freedom allow a person to move forward in a pro active manner makeing whatever changes they choose is best for them and the environment

hope this helps

KS

thanks for reply.......if you search the history of Boca Grande you will find this problem was not started by the Pet Trade.....couple of generations ago a family with access to a boat brought a group of Ctenosaura to the Boca Grande area where they lived and as the animals grew and had babies they were let loose and they simply spread in an acceptable environment..then the community started to build a wealth neighborhood on the Island and now the Iguanas are haveing to give up territory to roads and building projects of the wealthy

Simply isnt a fair deal

hope this helps clarify

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

Thanks for your reply......understand what you are saying however there is something that hasnt been mentioned in message....iguanas or Ctenosaura have basic needs that make them ideal house mates......they spend all day trying to obtain these basic needs.......that are.......heat and water and food and reproduction..........if these creatures are studied closely you will find that once they are warm and with belly full they dont move and they sleep most of the time........and grow....during the summer if they have the opportunity they become more active and they mate....all in a really small area.....they like to swim in bath tub in winter and fish pond in summer however they dont move much if fed properly and heated properly.....in the wild they are constantly on the move to survive from predators......in Boca Grande they have to contend with dogs and cats and hawks..........specific to them being in prison is kind of a mute point for all species on this planet......every liveing organism on this planet is in some kind of prison specific to wanting more or being limited in some way......whether Spiritually or haveing the needs of a Householder we all are basicly prisoners on this planet whether it be prisoner of the mind or circumstance of birth.....our intent and purose is to save some lives......an act of Service to the Earth.........after we have destroyed so much as a race why not give something back to a species that are happy with the simplest issues in live.....full stomach......warm place to spend 24 hours a day......and little movement needed to find a place to drop feces........any of these animals can be imprinted with daily human life if they are cared for on a daily basis instead of put in cage and simply fed each day and the Iguanas and Ctenosaura are one of the best companions for the Disabled due to their nature and natural way of life

hope this helps

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

hope this helps

Kevin Schneider

Iguana Rescue Southern California

i live in Miami, FL. if you need help relocating those iguanas why dont you try calling the everglades outpost. they take animals and maybe they can help out.
-----
0.0.1 firebelly toad- doodlebug
1.1.0 white's tree frog- popeye, jack
0.1.0 southern painted turtle- ms.tortle
0.3.1 crested gecko- crimson, lucky, red, jefante
1.0.0 pinto hedgehog- dante

Sorry, but, what a waste of time. I believe it is completely natural for an animal to move into new territory and carve out it’s niche. The animals that are not able to compete will be forced out. Totally a natural thing. They don’t know countries, borders, golf resorts or prime real estate. I believe the winter cold will keep them in check, especially northward expansion. They will end up with the same range as the “American” crocodile, which we know occurs in Florida only as it’s northern-most range of it’s much larger South American population. Consider it a by-product of global warming. Those Mexican lizards are here to stay. Just too bad they weren’t Fiji iguanas, we would be overrun with those endangered species. I have an idea, let a few go here in South Florida and you will never have to worry about them being endangered again. I think anyone thinking they are going to catch them and adopt them out are kinda kooky. There must be some money in it, maybe that’s what the tax is all about? Another government idiotic money wasting animal project. If you only knew the truth, the Governors mother in law saw an iguana poop on her pool deck on Gasparilla and he had to do something to get the wife off his back or something exactly that simple. Long live the Florida Spiney Iguana!!!!