Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi. I have a 5-6 mo old CWD that has not been eating for a couple of months. When we first noticed it we took "him" to the vet and they did a bunch of tests on him. They couldn't figure out what was wrong so they told us to "assist" feed him. So we've been doing that. Ensure and pellets. He doesn't like it at all but we make him. You see when we first brought him home he ate normally. Crickets and worms thats all he wanted. But now he wieghs 10g and when we first took him to the vet for the problem he wieghed 15g. I don't know what else to do. any suggestions.

What have you been trying to feed him, as of live foods? And what was he eating when he was eating normally? Is the husbandry correct, i.e. Temps, humidity, size of enclosure? Since you have been force feeding him, have you tried feeding any live foods? Do you know what kind of tests they did on him? Was a fecal involved? Sorry, so many questions, but I cant help or dont have any opinions based on what you have posted.

All the husbandry is correct, I don't know if fecal was involved the tests they did was from a peice of is skin because they said he was too young/small for blood or anything else.
When he did eat normally he was eating crickets and worms (only live) and while he's been sick we've tried both and he doesn't want them. We bought freeze dried worms and he doesn't want them either.

I would try force feeding some chicken baby food mixed with a little bit of pediatlye (for hydration). You could also try a high quality chicken cat food (canned) I would try raising the temperatures a few degrees as well, as it helps with stressed sick reptiles. Dont know what else to say since the vet hasnt turned up anything, just keept at it, keep tring to get food and fluids into him/her.

Oh ya, and dont forget to add a sprinkle of multi-vitamins or calcium, whatever day you do that, just add it to the slurry.

OhMyGoodness! That is terrible! I would definitely take a fecal to SOMEBODY!!! Even a local doggie vet can be encouraged to do a fecal, and usually at a much reduced price compared to what reptile vets charge. Please do it! He is probably only alive thru your lovely caring, but he can't make it without help. Undiagnosed parasites kill many lizards, and my experience was that my "reptile vet" did not even ask for a fecal, and she didn't know what was wrong with my Charlie, and she almost died! Luckily I was online, and figured this out. Then I took a poopie sample to my cat vet, and yep, parasites!!! Losing weight is a biggie in parasite symptoms btw.

Thank you both for your advice. I will deffinatly try both of your suggestions

First of all...I'm not a vet....so I am just giving you "food for thought". A good vet should be able to give you answers. I have kept/bred/raised water dragons for over 10 years.

It might be fine to force feed him, but I think you need to figure out the reason that he's not eating.

In the picture that you posted, his mouth looks a little funny. Can you post another picture of his head please? Have you looked in its mouth to see if there is anything wrong?

Parasites (as someone suggested) might be the problem too.

I know you said the husbandry is okay...but you don't give any information too allow anyone to agree with you.

Does he get full spectrum (including UVB) light that is not through glass or plastic? Or direct sunlight? Do you gutload the insects that you feed him? With what? Do you dust the crickets with calcium? Do you also dust them with D3 a couple of times a month if he isn't getting direct sun? Do you use any vitamin/mineral powders to dust the insects a couple of times a month? If you use vitamins, is the vitamin A from a preformed source or a beta-carotene source? What about the pellets you are using? Do you feed him any greens or veggies or fruit?

Temperature is important for the proper digestion of the food. What temperature is the basking area at? Ambient temperature of the cage?

Does he have access to water? (Can't remember if you mentioned this.)

Is he pooping? What do you use for substrate? If he's not pooping, is there any possibiity that he is impacted?

Hopefully you will find out the reason he isn't eating!

First yes his mouth is messed up but only on the outside...the vet said it was from his not eating ie: lack of protiens, vitamines, ect. She gave us some anti-bacterial solutin to clean it with twice daily and it went away breifly but then he slowed down his eating again and it came back.

Husbandry: day temp at basking rock is 96ish and the other side of the tank is 84ish. He gets direct sunlight in the morning. during the day he uses a uvb bulb in the basking area and a plant light across the hood. at night he has a black light. the lights are always direct and ot through glass or plastic. the humidity is always between 60-85 dependng on if i just sprayed.

We do gut load the crickets, they eat 'happy cricket' and boston lettuce. they get dusted with calcium before feedings and once a week wth dragon dust. we also used to feed him worms which also go dusted. the pellets that we feed him are by exp terra and called dragon, juvinile. he has always refused to eat fruits or veggies tried all types.

He does have access to water, he has a pool and since he's been sick we've been soaking him in warm wated for 10 min a day per vet instructions. he does poop.

any other questons just ask.

I just saw the picture, does he have his mouth open like that alot? And for extended periods of time? Is there any noises, clicking popping gurgling type sounds coming from him when he is breathing or mouth gaping? This could be a sign of respitory infection if thats the case.

Husbandry sounds pretty good!

Your gutload could use some improvement IMHO. I feed my crickets a wide variety of greens (dandelion greens, collards, kale, endive, romaine lettuce (it has good levels of calcium, etc.) and veggies (sweet potato, white potato, squash, carrots, red peppers, etc.) I have never used "happy cricket" so I can't tell you if its good or not. I also have no idea what "dragon dust" is and I've never used the pellets either.

You said.."he has always refused to eat fruits or veggies tried all types"..I know so many people who say this and I can't figure it out. Mine have always eaten lots of fruits, veggies and greens. I can't understand why mine do and many people's don't.

You said..."he does poop"...that would lead me to believe that he has to be eating something...and shows that he isn't impacted.

I'm wondering if his mouth is too sore to eat much?

Do any of the things that you feed your insects or dust them with or the pellets contain preformed vitamin A (not beta carotene)? To me, the way the mouth looks would lead me to feel he has MBD....but as I said before, I'm not a vet, so its just my opinion. Vitamin A and Vitamin D3 and calcium are the three main players in that...and since you said that he gets calcium on the crickets and he gets direct sun, that only leaves Vitamin A.

Mine wont eat fruits or veggies either, and I have offered many, usually every other day, but to no avail. And I know alot of people who cant get theres to eat fruits or veggies either. The dragon pooping can still be impacted, impaction doesnt always clog all the way, most cases yes, but there are some that still do go. I have heard of dragon dust, but I havent used it, some small towns, like mine, dont carry big supplier names. And lastly I believe Kale binds calcium, just wanted to note that. Im waiting for the reply on if any sounds are being made while breathing, mouth gaping (thermoregulating) or anything like that. MBD is a concern as well, although RI is also, so... I would really have a second vet opinion if I were you.

Actually, excuse me, Kale isnt all that bad, fed occasionally (im figuring this goes with crickets as well) it has a moderate amount of oxelates, so it doesnt bind calcium as much as say, spinach or broccoli

no he does not make any sounds while his mouth is open

morquinn...if he is impacted the "poop" would only be able to pass if it were very loose...so I guess I should have asked the quality of the poop too.

I asked you if you have any substrate in the cage? Can't recall an answer.

Also, is any vitamin A in the pellets or vitamins or anything else you give him from a preformed source or beta carotene source.

I'm still concerned with the mouth...if its "deformed" then it could be from poor nutrition (not eating, etc.) If the balance of his dietisn't corrected then things will get worse. It could be metabolic bone disease (imbalance between calcium, phosphorous, vitamin D3 and vitamin A...as the main players in the problem).

In this site there are some articles that talk about the relationship between vitamins D3 and A and calcium (I know...they are talking about chameleons...but the story is the same for w. dragons)....
http://www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/

If it was mouth rot in my experience simply cleaning it off won't cure it. If there is/was bacteria involved, a culture should have been done of the infection. The infected area should have been cleaned out surgically and he should have been put on antibiotics that the culture showed worked against the bacteria. If it was/is bacterial and this wasn't done the bacteria could spread to other areas.

How's he doing now?

i dont know much about wd but this stuff applys to all reptiles
1- hot rock can burn reptiles very badly and catch things on fire easily, i would use a heat lamp
2-most lettuce is just filler, see if he will eat some type of greens they have lots of vitamins and minerals
3- switch over to minerall or reptivite supplements, alot of dragon dusts and icbs, etc have actually killed reptiles before so be careful
4-how big is his cage? is his water changed daily? are there lots of vertical and horizontal branches and lots of good tight hides?
5-dont over supplement on vitamins or d3, use mostly calcium, maybe vitamins 2-3 times a month no more,(herptevite is an excellent vitammin powder an uses beta carotene!)
just my 2 cents

good luck to you and your water dragon
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.0.1 madagascar giant day gecko
0.01 corn snake
0.0.1 Black throat
0.0.2 black rat snakes
mountain horned dragon...R.I.P
YTPL...R.I.P.
BKS...R.I.P.
etc...etc...etc
(UNFORTUNITALY about 16 various others...R.I.P.)
some locals kept for a few months to heal (i.e. skinks and a box turtle)

Just an update...
norbert seems to be gaining alitle weight but doesn't seem to acting like he feels any better. I added mango baby food and mixed vegetables baby food to his diet which he seems to try to chew. His mouth still looks horrible but in reply to the last comment about his mouth, I think the vet did do a test on it and she said there was no bacteria found and it's not mouth rot, she didn't come to a definate conclusion about what it was. His "poop" is a little loose but thats probably because he isn't eating any solids.