Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I have a female elaphe dione who is cb 2002. Last year she get 2 fertile eggs en two healthy offsprings, but now things are differnent. She mated on 5-3-2006, and is now very big, I never seen a gravid snake who is so big! What to do?! Need I do something like to go to the vet and take some oxytosine? Or I need to massage the eggs? But as you must understand I need those eggs, it is very special copulation, of cherksy (dark) with nigrita (very special)... So please help!!!

This is a piture of the copulation:

This are pictures of the big girl:

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Greetings from Gidi & Wim (www.elaphedione.com), Amsterdam.

I am no expert but.... If she mated in March, when should she have laid? She could just have a very large clutch. If she is egg bound and they are extremely past due, then there is most likely no chance of saving the eggs. I would be more worried about the mother. You can always get more eggs. Good luck!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake "Molly"

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

Hi,

Ok. I understand saving the mother is more important, but when do I know she have egg bound, or it is just a late clutch?!

thanks for your reply!
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Greetings from Gidi & Wim (www.elaphedione.com), Amsterdam.

has she had her pre-laying shed yet? in other words... snakes tend to shed before they lay their eggs and if she has already shed how long has it been? if they were bred in late march...my corns were bred on the 29th of march, she MAY (not 100% sure...but on my calculations) shed/lay between april 26th-may 10th. currently my female is starting to go opaque so after she sheds it should be about 10 days give or take to lay the eggs. but i would get the incubator ready just in case. b/c some snakes CAN lay before their pre-laying shed. i hope i have helped at some point!! and please, let me know how they turn out!!! i couldnt breed my black rats this year due to the female having an illness during breeding time. good luck!!!!!!
~kin
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude)
1. unknown hypo? normal? (Romeo)
.1 Miami Phase (Emily)
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy [Emilys babies])
.1 Amel (Pepperoni)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss het Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Classic het Hypo, Stripe (Gracie Lou)

Rats:
1.1 Black rats (Cecily, Willard)

Cal Kings:
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Skunky, Dweezil)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
.1 Blizzard

~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLE~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)

Hi, Gidi and Wim.

It is hard to say, not being there, but remember that dione has a very short incubation time. That means they probably hold their eggs longer than most snakes. It doesn't seem like 60 days would be too long to carry the eggs. Before doing something drastic I would ask a few questions though...
1. How long has it been since she ate? She should stop eating before laying her clutch.
2. Has she had her prelay slough, yet?
3. Is she showing signs of stress?
4. How long was it before she layed last year?

I would make sure she has a nice nest box and plenty of peace and quiet. Don't check on her too often or handle much. That could cause some stress too. If you think she is overdo, because she has had the prelay shed and stopped eating and hasn't laid the eggs for a long time, then ask your vet if there's a problem. She may be a little small for that big of a clutch, but I'd give her a chance to deliver naturally.

Hope this is a little helpful and good luck with them...

Terry

Hi Terry,

She ate on 28-3 for last time, and she shed in 8-4. She is now very tired and almost don't move, she stop tonging. Last year she lay eggs in 25-4 two fertile and two infirtile, now it seems she have 10 fertile and VERY BIG eggs, I don't know what to do!!!

Best regards,
Gidi
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Greetings from Gidi & Wim (www.elaphedione.com), Amsterdam.

Hi, Gidi.

I'm not very experienced with this problem, but I would take her to the vet. Sounds like she needs some help. A friend of mine got that shot for his that makes them lay the eggs and his case turned out pretty good. Sorry for you and hope it works out, ok.

TC

>>Hi Terry,
>>
>>She ate on 28-3 for last time, and she shed in 8-4. She is now very tired and almost don't move, she stop tonging. Last year she lay eggs in 25-4 two fertile and two infirtile, now it seems she have 10 fertile and VERY BIG eggs, I don't know what to do!!!
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Gidi
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>>Greetings from Gidi & Wim (www.elaphedione.com), Amsterdam.

Wim,
In my experience with the smaller Asian species (Dione included), your gestation time is not unusual. However, based on the pictures I'd say you may have a problem with egg-binding. This has been most common for me when the clutch is lined up with an infertile egg first out. For some reason in smaller Asians, the infertiles tend to over-expand and cause blockage. If she is truly very lethargic, I would suggest an hour-long soak in warm (100F) water that is only about an or two inches deep. This seems to help lubricate her and relax the muscles which may assist her passing the first egg. I have had to do this in between eggs as well, usually waiting about 12 hours after the first on is laid to repeat the process. This goes against the advice of not disturbing her, but once she reaches a point when she is too weak or uncomfortable to move, it is possible that she may just lay there and atrophy her muscles until she reduces circulation to the point of death. Only try this if she is not moving about daily for re-positioning. Also, make sure the egg-laying site is proper. It should be covered, fairly deep with substrate, and humid without being wet. If she is still investigating her surroundings and is fairly grumpy, let her be. If she is laying in one spot all day and has no aggresstion even when disturbed, I'd try the soak. The size of those eggs in the picture and her appareant dehydration would worry me. Hope this helps. Let me know what you decide.

Bryan
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Last night I was laying in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, "Where the hell is my ceiling?"

Hi,

Thanks for all your help! I tried everything but she became weaker and weaker, she just died .
I hope this never will happen again!!!

Do any of you have a sugestion waht to do with her and the eggs???

Gidi
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Greetings from Gidi & Wim (www.elaphedione.com), Amsterdam.

i am terribly sorry for your loss.....
~kin
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude)
1. unknown hypo? normal? (Romeo)
.1 Miami Phase (Emily)
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy [Emilys babies])
.1 Amel (Pepperoni)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss het Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Classic het Hypo, Stripe (Gracie Lou)

Rats:
1.1 Black rats (Cecily, Willard)

Cal Kings:
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Skunky, Dweezil)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
.1 Blizzard

~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLE~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)

Gidi, sorry for your loss.

Not sure if this will work, but you could try to salvage the eggs. It's probably too late, but you could try and see if any are good. You might also find out what went wrong.

Sorry, it's the scientist/doctor in me...

TC

Hi,

We cut her open en took all the 10 eggs. They were very big, never seen such big eggs before. But we can say all 10 eggs are dead, maybe they were infirtle but I am not sure, at least we don't get offsprings from this eggs.

Thanks everyone for his help!

Gidi
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Greetings from Gidi & Wim (www.elaphedione.com), Amsterdam.