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I have a friend who is an entemologist (sp) who keeps giant silk moths as well as chameleons. He keeps some very exotic 'bugs' and panther chameleons, and it was through him that I really developed a fascination for bugs. I will not mention what sorts of bugs I keep, but I have another friend who keeps Giant Spiny Stick-Insects (Extatosoma tiaratum)and another unknown stick insect species as well as some exotic roach species as feeders.
The 'bugs' I keep are functional, as they serve as feeders for my various herps, but I also keep a number of them just because I like keeping them!
My question is this: how do you feel about feeding some of your excess 'bug' stock to your chameleon, and would you be willing to provide some of your own stock to a chameleon keeper for the purposes of 1) propagating the species by keeping and breeding said 'bug' and 2) improve the diet of his/her chameleon by occasionally offering some of the excess 'bug' stock in question? This question is purely hypothetical.
I know you've mentioned in a previous post that you would never consider the feeding of your silk moths to your chameleons, so perhaps this addresses my question. I guess my underlying question is this: does the pros of someone keeping a 'bug' species outweigh the cons of them feeding some of the excess stock?
Sorry if I'm coming off as callous or uncaring about how you feel about your pets- not my intention!
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Hi Victor,

>>My question is this: how do you feel about feeding some of your excess 'bug' stock to your chameleon,

***absolutely will not do it. Besides the ethical (for me) component, I do not have excess. I buy eggs from someone and they are not cheap - $15 - 20 for 2 dozen depending on species. These are not reared like silkworms (Bombyx spp>) in that you can have more in about a month or so nor is there artificial food for them as there is for hornworms and silkies. As these grow, I spend at least two hours a day (once in morning and once in the evening collecting fresh, toxin free food plants for them. This creature’s life cycle is about 9 or 10 months. So there is no excess stock (nor do I see them as stock) and if anything there is ALWAYS mortality during larva stage as well as occasionally in over wintering pupa so you end up with fewer than you start with. For example, last year I tried Imperial moths for the first time. $15 for 10 eggs, all but two died before pupating which made them worth $7.50 each. Neither of them eclosed so it was $15 out the window…I usually don’t get discouraged but I don’t think I will try that species again.

>> and would you be willing to provide some of your own stock to a chameleon keeper for the purposes of 1) propagating the species by keeping and breeding said 'bug' and 2) improve the diet of his/her chameleon by occasionally offering some of the excess 'bug' stock in question? This question is purely hypothetical.

***Again, no. BTW, a matter of semantics these are not “bugs” (ask your entomologist friend about when is an insect a bug and when is it not) Also, not every larva is good for reptile food. There is a Giant Silk known as the Io moth which, in its larval stage, has urticating setae (stinging hairs) just like tarantulas. The Io is not the only one either. Other caterpillars, such as monarch butterflies larva, are toxic b/c their sole host plant is milkweed.

>>I know you've mentioned in a previous post that you would never consider the feeding of your silk moths to your chameleons, so perhaps this addresses my question.

*** yes, it does. Did you read a post a long time ago or did you read the recent one which actually explains my introduction to raising them? If it was the latter, the fact that I hand fed a crippled sphinx moth (adult) for 5 days should tell you something I will post a picture if you’re interested.

I guess my underlying question is this: does the pros of someone keeping a 'bug' species outweigh the cons of them feeding some of the excess stock?

*** I think this has been answered.

>>Sorry if I'm coming off as callous or uncaring about how you feel about your pets- not my intention!

*** not at all. Many people don’t understand it and it is a very personal choice. When I first got Rose, my pink-toed tarantula, friends could not understand how I could have her and raise my Silks. Well, for one thing they are not all in the same enclosure – LOL! or I would have one fat Rose! And secondly, I find all mini-beasts lives and life cycles just fascinating and see them as very separate beings and respect them as such. When I collect food for the cat(erpillar)s I often end up bringing in others and keep them in order to i.d them or to bring them to adult stage. I currently have 3 or 4 “hitchhikers” including a swallowtail butterfly, red-spotted purple (I think – that’s why I will keep it until adult) and two others that I probably won’t know for awhile – it’s fun! Nature’s little mysteries

If you knew that a beautiful caterpillar (and they are – see http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=25711 turned in to this beautiful creature with a 6” wingspan...
...this is cc who survived a virus when 11 of her siblings did not. She eclosed this past June, I mated her with a wild cecropia, I collected about 30 of her eggs then released her to get her good, strong genes out there into the wild. This photo is just before her release. And go here http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=83589 to see her in profile after laying a few eggs (by her head).

So, Victor, I hope this answers some of your questions and that it helps you, and maybe others who read it, to understand my thinking, feeling and approach.

Lele