Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Place-Erwin Park, Mckinney Texas
Time 10:30 AM
Temp-Probably 90f
Snake-Big, black, no pattern or markings, white belly, at least 4' feet long, very fast, climbed a tree to get away from me. Maybe a few white spots on sides, large ventral scales, not as muscular as a rat snake, but smoother, rounder, faster, he flew up that tree.

My guess is a black racer, but this guy was huge, are there black coachwhips around? This dude was all black though, even tail, looked alot like an indigo, but white belly, and I dont think black rats are around. His head looked diff. then a rat though, not as V shaped. Must be a racer then huh.....?
I;ll try and post the pics but my camera has no zoom.

My vote is Racer...

Steve

yeah I've just never seen one this big,
this guy was huge!
4-5'at least

Not a black racer - they have black bellies, and are not native to the Dallas-Fort Worth area. The only racer in that area is the Eastern Yellowbelly racer, which I wouldn't rule out. It has a cream to yellowish belly and (in adults) a solid dorsum that is highly variable in coloration, ranging from brown to gray to dull green, or even dark blue - but not black.

My best guess is Eastern Coachwhip, which sometimes is nearly entirely black. But the white belly is throwing me off; coachwhips usually have belly coloration the same as the back.

It's also not a Black Rat snake. They're farther north and east. DFW has the Texas Rat, which retains it's pattern into adulthood.

You might want to post this one on the Snakes-What Kind? forum. Oldherper or Skinner (who is in the DFW area) should be able to nail it down fer ya.

Well, the only snake that comes close to fitting that description and who's range is close is the Southern Black Racer. It doesn't have a white belly, but it normally has some white on it's chin and neck. The area you saw him in is somewhat west of the range of Black Racers, but not far enough to make it impossible. There are some all black (or nearly so) Eastern Coachwhips, but they aren't reported from your area. There is an isolated population of Central Texas Whipsnakes to the west of you (north of Abilene) but it's much more likely it was Black Racer.

I agree. Would like to have seen it.

Thanks for the response guys, hopefully tomorrow I will have pics to post. I guess it was either a racer or coach whip. But I have never seen one that big. The belly was white with a little tan on the ventral scales. I thought I saw a few white spots on the sides, which reminded me of the buttermilk racers I used to see in Houston. Those were a blueish yellow and real nice looking, but mean as hell.

I'm really looking forward to seeing those pics, especially since I was the one that said it wasn't a black racer. I agree that the description sounds very much like one, especially given that a white chin/throat can give the false impression of a white belly. But even the NE suburbs of Dallas are 100 miles or more from the published range of the S. Black Racer, and the Herps of Dallas/FtWorth page has no reference to black racers ever being reported in the Metroplex area. Yes, I know the published ranges are not absolute and that herps don't necessarily abide by them, but I'm still not giving up on either an unusually dark specimen of the Eastern Yellowbelly Racer, or possibly even an intergrade between that and either the Southern Black or Buttermilk Racer (both native to far eastern TX).

Well the pics should be ready tomorrow.
i'll post them.

the pics turned out poorly,
cant see a thing...sorry