Reptile & Amphibian Forums

on venomous of Missouri and let me add > Legitimate circuses ( WHAT ? ) zoos, research facilities are exempt from wildlife breeders permit. ALL species and or sub-species of Timbers ( CROTALUS HORRIDUS )are questionable. That includes canebrakes ( atricaudatus ) and that is if you believe this is a sub-species.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

Calm down. Start at the beginning. Tell us what happened.

nothing going on ! Other than some of has been selling herps possibly illegal depending on how the Mo. wildlife agency interprets ( and us ) the law and what wildlife enforcers tell as in different stories either by comprehension or what ever. LOL ! Example : I had my class 2 breeders permit for alligator snappers at my retail store in which kept me safe of my keeping of venomous at my boonie residents. The county wildlife agent showed up at my country home asking me about me wanting to keep large exotic felines. I never ever had any knowledge of me wanting to keep such. But while he was there I asked about native timbers as I did native snakes displays and talks to groups/schools. He said FINE with my permit. But seeking out the controversial subject of me thinking the timber rattlesnake was on some kind of listed animal of the state, I called the main wildlife state agency and they said NO WAY ! So.......
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

So there is some question about some specimens you have been keeping being no longer legal? And you are getting a runaround by agencies that are conflicted in their interpretation of this? These are valid concerns. I would have to guess this can be sorted out.

"The county wildlife agent showed up at my country home asking me about me wanting to keep large exotic feline."

--This is because (I believe) they are cracking down on keeping exotic felines and the class II permit you had/have allows you to keep exotic felines.

"I called the main wildlife state agency and they said NO WAY !"

--They were wrong. Read the Wildlife Code book. As long as the animal was not WC from the state of Missouri, you have the permits, and you have documentation of where the animal came from (letter/receipts) you are fine.

Michael Brodt

Mike,

The Missouri Wildlife class II permits cover native only. Here is a brief rundown as we have gone over this before. These rules have been the same for a number of years now (at least 5).

1) Exotics over xx ft and exotic/native venomous: fill out paperwork stating what you have with the local sheriff.

2) Native MO hots. WC animals cannot originate from Missouri at all (unless you are an academic institution with permits). You have to have the class II wildlife permit to have CB native MO species even if bred out of state(or out of state WC animals---Note change from Law forum post). There is no limit on the number you can have. You have to have all documentation of where the animals come from, and if you give/sell them away, who you gave/sold them to. If they are given in state, you must have that persons wildlife class II permit number.

The wording in the wildlife code can be confusing, but you have to read it very very carefully. Documentation is required for all native MO hot animals. If in doubt, CYA and take the conservative route.

Michael Brodt

Hi, where in the hand book does it say you have to register non native venomous with the local sheriff office? Chapter 9 3 CSR 10-9.110 (2) and i quote, Except for federally designated endangered species and species listed in 3csr 10-4.117 and 3 csr 10-9.240 the following may be bought, sold, possessed transported and exhibited without permit, asiatic clams taken from impoundments that are not waters of the state, bison, amphibians, reptiles, and mammals not native to Missouri, and it goes on, but nowhere can i find anything about registering with the local law enforcement.

I have always heard this as a Missouri rule also, but when I went to report my collection to my local sheriffs department, they didn't have any idea what I was talking about and didn't seem to care.

What are the nonvenomous laws for Missouri? Can I legally catch a set number of them and keep them without a permit? I get conflicting answers even when I talk to conserversion dept. employees.

I _believe_ these are the correct in state non venomous laws. I'm not intimately familiar with them though.

1) You can legally have up to 5 animals per person. The animals can be either CB from out of state, CB from a Wildlife Class I permit holder in state, or collected. This is for non-protected species.

2) If you want to sell native MO CB animals in or out of state, you need the Class I permit.

3) If you want to have more than 5 animals per person, you need the Class I permit. (My wife and I are two people, thus we legally have 9 animals in our household.)

-Michael

http://www.house.mo.gov/bills02/biltxt02/intro02/hb1596i.htm

AN ACT

To repeal section 578.023, RSMo, and to enact in lieu thereof one new section relating to registration of exotic animals.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the state of Missouri, as follows:

Section A. Section 578.023, RSMo, is repealed and one new section enacted in lieu thereof, to be known as section 578.023, to read as follows:

578.023. 1. No person may keep any lion, tiger, leopard, ocelot, jaguar, cheetah, margay, mountain lion, Canada lynx, bobcat, jaguarundi, hyena, wolf, bear, nonhuman primate, coyote, any deadly, dangerous, or poisonous reptile, or any deadly or dangerous reptile over eight feet long, in any place other than a properly maintained zoological park, circus, scientific, or educational institution, research laboratory, veterinary hospital, or animal refuge, unless such person has within two weeks of coming into possession of such animals, registered such animals with the local law enforcement agency in the county in which the animal is kept.

2. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a class C misdemeanor.

How can a person register something if the local law enforcement office has no idea what you are talking about, i tried to get information on the subject from my local sheriff, asking him in person and was told he knew nothing about it, acted like i was wasting his time, also talked to my local wildlife officer, he said that the only restrictions he knew about were in the wildlife code handbook, and to check city and county ordianiances, my conclusion is that they really dont care as long as it is not native to MO.

I can't answer that question nor dispute your experience. However...

1) The Jefferson County sheriff has a form to fill out. Perhaps your sheriff could use this form.

2) I'd send the sheriff a letter (and keep a copy) stating that you have animals covered under this rule. Always CYA as I'd bet the local sheriff won't if anything bad ever happened. Remember under the law, it is a Class C Misdemeanor if you don't register.

-m

It states in 3 csr 10-9.353 of The Wildlife Code of Missouri that persons possessind Class 11 Wildlife must comply with all requirements of section 578.023,RSMo. Class 11 Wildlife is defined as copperheads, cottonmouths, timber rattlesnakes, pygmy rattlesnakes, massasauga rattlesnakes, and the mammals listed, is the venomous reptiles said in section 578.023,RSMo refering to Class 11 wildlife of Mo? if so any venomous reptiles not listed as native to MO would not fall under this rule.

contacting local law enforcement and depends how YOU decipher it, it does include ALL venomous species whether native or not : > reason being of emergency applications of fire, rescue call/s, etc. Also if you register with local law enforcement and have a list of species ( I did ) if someone gets nabbed from something not yours say a copperhead or a let go near by your resident home, you are not in jeopardy of insurance, law suit to name a few. Also while this is not mandatory, I would post a sign of the keeping of venomous as I have in all of my resident homes. Of course I haven't lived in townships for the last decade and a half and would imagine a sign of the keeping of venomous on your property would stir up some problems with close proximity neighbors ! LOL !
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

by registering your hots or making the attempt to ( meaning I also had the WHAT ? by local law enforcement ), you just might be able to pull the grandfathering scenario if a ban or heavy restrictions come down the pipe line on venomous. I mean it can't hurt to be legal on this...........
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......