Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've always practiced the old adage about eggs. Never throw out an egg if it looks like it might hatch. The main group of Sky's eggs (Ambanja pictured) went off a long time ago (over a year). There were a handful of eggs that didn't hatch and I have continued to incubate them. After two years, four of them have hatched recently.

wow hatched after 2 years? thats kinda unheard of isn't it? Gratz. have any pictures?

They have been hatching sporadically so one male is 3 months old. I have a picture of him, not a very good one. Another male is 2 1/2 old, no pics yet. Then a 1.1 pair went off together and they are about 2 months old, no pics yet. Here is the oldest male.

Did you notice anything about the hatchlings? Size? Strength? hunger (lol after 2 years) anything different?
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

Hi Will. I can't say that there is anything different about them. They stayed in the egg so long, I don't see how it is possible. They look and act normal though.

that IS amazing. How on earth do you breeders ever KNOW how to prepare for clutches when there is no certainty when they will arrive? How often do you check the incubating eggs? Do you always keep FF on hand? sorry for all of the questions. I just don't know how you do it! LOL You have much more patience than I. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

I don't know if I have any more patience then you or not Diane, I just love doing this so it is not hard. I breed other creatures besides Chameleons. That is one thing that helps. Leopard Geckos only take 60 days until they hatch. Tokay Geckos usually go 90 days. Chameleons (Panthers and Veileds) take around 200 days. These are all just estimates that I use, eggs can take longer of shorter times. I've had Leopard Geckos hatch in as little as 43 days, and now I've had Panther Chameleons hatch after 2 years.

If I have unhatched Panther or Veileds Eggs after the main group has hatched out I'll put them in with Leopard Gecko Eggs. Leopard Gecko babies are huge compared to Chameleon babies. When a Leopard Gecko hatches it stomps all over the other incubating eggs. So you always have to mark the top of the eggs with a Sharpie so you'll know how they are suppose to be in the incubating medium. If the eggs roll around, the embryo inside will suffocate.

One other thing that I do that I don't think others breeders do that often is to completely change the incubation medium out usually once a month and always every two months. Vermiculite, not so much with Pearlite (and I use both), will begin to mold or mildew after a while so it helps to have a fresh batch once a month. That keeps long term incubating eggs from collapsing and molding. I don't know if I answered your questions or not.

Great answers. I doubt I will ever breed. But these chameleons are intoxicating so I may be further drawn into them. I believe my male Water Dragon must be impotent. Possibly probed before I got him? because I have never noticed any signs of sexual activity between he and his harem. I just admire your (and the other breeder's) patience and abilities. Keep up the good work! I can't wait to see progress photos of these late comers as they grow. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

Thank you Diane, those are kind words. There are a lot of animals in captivity that don't want to mate. I like to see people get into breeding but there are so many breeders today and the one thing we cannot do that nature does is practice selectivity. I've heard that male Panther Chameleons have a life span of about 1 1/2 years in the wild. A lot of this has to do with how hard they fight for the right to mate. Some Chameleon species such as Jacksons, only joust, serious injury doesn't occur often, this is not the case with Panthers. They are often seriously or mortally wounded in fights with other Panthers. So in nature, only the strong survive and get to breed. That's not the case with captive Panthers and this has caused a weakening of the gene pool and animals that don't want to mate. Other than occasionally getting a wild caught Panther to bring new blood into the gene pool, I don't know what can be done about this. Valerie.

The populations of jacksonii in CA are decended from the ones in Hawaii, which are decended from just a few dozen individuals.

Still, they seem fine. Good looking animals all over. It's got more to do with selection and less with small gene pools and population bottlenecks.

The best thing to do is to hold back your very best animals for breeding, and sell them to people who are being selective. Very few of a clutch will survive to adulthood, and few of the males will be big and strong enough to win and defend territory.

It's impossible to do anything to impact ALL non-selectiver beeding, unless you cull most of your hatchlings or sell them ONLY to people with no breeding interests. Instead, responsible breeders should themselves be selective with their breeders. IF all good breeders were selctive, and only bred the few very best animals out of each clutch, it would do wonders for the quality of the animals in captivity.

Hi Eric, I think you need to be a Panther breeder to understand the limited gene pool I'm talking about. Most of these animals just won't mate, the gene pool among captive bred Panthers is stagnant. I've spent thousands purchasing CB Panther females that I raise up only to find out they're duds (as Tyler calls them). The Jacksons in Hawaii (and California) were wild caught to begin with they were only released onto a plantation to fatten up after being shipped from Africa. I'm not talking about them. What I'm really referring to are captive bred Panther Chameleons. The only answer that I see is to add wild caught individuals to your breeding program. I find that to be a sad situation because I don't agree with taking Panthers out of their jungle homes now that so many people are breeding them. Had people been practicing selective breeding then yes, I agree, this situation wouldn't exist. I would like to see CB Panthers behave like their wild caught relatives, but right now they don't.

OK, only 6 weeks, not 2 years Deanna said that he hung on for a month and a half beyond his siblings and may account for his early coloration. He is a strong and healthy boy! I hope that yours all do well - good thing you did not give up and stuck it out!
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - swifty and blotcha for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Hi Lele, Cyrus is a nice looking little guy! I've had lots of Panther eggs that didn't hatch with the main group and I've always continued to incubate them, some will hatch about a month so later. I never expected to have these guys go off so much later. Do you ever get on the Arachnid (sp?) forum? Valerie

I use the ATS yahoo forum b/c the "experts" are there. Stan Schultz, who wrote theT "bible" - aka The Tarantula Keeper's Guide - frequents the forum. The ATS home page has been updated and the forum will be migrating over there in time. Sometimes it gets crazy, especially when the conference is near.

When my poor Rosa Leigh was acting weird a couple weeks ago I emailed a few of the people privately for some quick responses - unfortunately she died 2 days later, but everyone was very helpful.

check it out, if you haven't already

http://atshq.org/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATS_enthusiast/messages
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - swifty and blotcha for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet