Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Any one out there using a common nest box for all of your
females?

Last year someone mentioned that they had used one that they kept several females in while they laid eggs. In the past I've always set up individual nest boxs and then put those smaller boxes in the female snakes enclousure.

This year I have 7 gravid females. Three of them should lay eggs about the same. Another three again about 2 weeks later and then one about 3 weeks after that.

I'm thinking about just using a larger sweater box and filling it with sphagnum moss. Then keeping 2 or 3 females in it together.

Anyone else doing this or something simular? Any feedback would be appreciated

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

The only kings I keep together are breeding pairs. I wouldn't put a couple of gravid females together. You never know when a king will decide that their cage mate looks like a good meal. Even if it is too big to eat.

any aditional stress factors during the egglaying proccess could be detrimental to the female. Egg binding is a common problem for those that don't provide a secure laying environment. Kings like to be alone. Stressing them out by putting them together is just asking for trouble. Use separate lay boxes. just my .02

give it a shot it sounds like an interesting experiment, I don't see why it wouldn't work.
daveb

I have no problem with group nesting, many species and populations do that(pyros)in nature. With Thayeri, I have only found single clutches in nature.

But this ain't nature. It will work without problem is proper nesting is supported. Its here I have my doubts.

Most keepers here are like lab rats in an experiment. They follow rules that don't exsist. Like a nesting box goes in a sweater box. I find this a bit insane. Its merely a mental paradigm. It has nothing to do with need, reality or the snakes.

In this day and age of miniture caging(plastic boxes of all sorts) People feel they need to put a box(nesting) in a box(holding) when the first box(holding) is tooooo small for nesting to start with. So the other box(nesting) by function, must be smaller then the first box, in order to fit in that box. So by difinition, the nesting box is double tooooo small. hahahahahahahahahaha yes, I do laugh at this.

There are no rules that say, the nesting box cannot be the same size as the keeping box. There are no rules that say the nesting box cannot or should not be double or triple the size of the keeping box. These rules do not exsist. That you keepers(i now question this term) feel the need to put a box in a box is of question and wonder. Only you should stand in front of the mirror and ask this of yourself.

I will now ask a direct important question, What is different between a cage and a nest box? What stops you from calling the first cage(sweater box) a nesting box? What does a nesting box have that the cage doesn't have? and Why?

To make it simple, I use a nesting cage thats much larger then the cages I keep the snakes in on a daily basis. In fact, once a female copulates, I place her in the larger nesting cage and she stays there until she has finished laying however many clutches she may lay.(this is what they do in nature, by the way)

My nesting cages have all the same choices of temps and such, water hides etc, plus the added benefit of deep substrate to nest in.

The kicker is, we are talking about kingsnakes which LIVE most of their lifes IN the substrate. So a normal cage is a cage without depth. Think about that for a while. I hope epiphanies ring. Cheers

after reading that post i was just wondering what you think a suitable size "sweater box" is for the enclosure of a king 3-5 feet would be, or do you not use them? just curious.

Adam

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1.2 THAYERI
1.2 SPLENDIDA (1.0 ALBINO/ 0.2 HYPO)
1.1 CORNS SNAKES (0.1 SNOW/ 1.0 STRIPEDSUNGLOW)
0.1 REDFOOT TORTOISE
1.0 LEOPARD TORTOISE
0.1 PYXIE FROG
0.0.1 HORNED FROG
0.0.1 TADPOLES

I remember a while ago you posted a pic of a deep rubbermaid tub where you had a deep soil layer covered by a board that held all of the needed cage furnishings on top. Is this what you use for all of your females for most of the summer?? The only way I could think of to heat a setup like that would be with lights (my favorite way to heat) but not always the most practical.

I'll take a stab at the rest...

I think that for those who use paper (I don't), the clear difference between a nest box and a cage is digability. Why people keep fosorial snakes on paper, I don't know, but it seems to work reasonably well for some so lets not get into that debate.

For those of us that always provide a deep substrate, I think that a good nest box should provide the female with someplace DARK, HUMID, and digable (i like my new word). These conditions would not be appropriate for the entire cage. But who is to say that snakes don't need this type of habitat for other behaviors? That is why I don't call mine a nest box. I call it a humidity chamber and almost all of my snakes male, female, old, and juvis all have one for the entire year. I use a large box full to the top with a mix of spagnum and vermculite. All of my snakes utalize this box throughout the year. The only differnce between my "nest" box and the bigger "cage" box is humidity and depth/type of substrate.

cheers
zach

Nice post. I like your train of thought.

The reality is, people can do whatever they want and they do. It doesn't have to be a single way or approach. The only thing that bothers me is, how people rationalize what they do. As is, "IT WORKS". I mean, it works for WHAT?????

If people would realize what they are doing, they may choose to do something else.

For instance, the modern cages are replicating the snakes burrow. Or better yet, the chamber at the end of the burrow. It does not more. If kingsnakes did not live in holes, they would not tolerate shoe boxes. But they do live in holes. So people keep them locked up in a hole. It works, but why would you do that?

oh, lites do work well, on the lid of those nesting cages is a lite fixture. I put my nesting boxes in my incubator room. As I hope the temps in the room where the eggs are going to incubate should be about what a nesting area should be.

Lites are great particularly when the snakes can burrow into total darkness.

Thanks

How deep are your laying cages? Do you find that your kings would use the entire depth or do they stay somewhat shallow?

The model I used was wild eggs. There depth depends on temperature. But in most cases they were from 6 to 12 inches from the surface. Remember, we have little ground cover and even less surface insulation(leaf litter, etc)

In my nest cages, they have about a foot and normally lay in the middle. That may have more to do with where I place the piece of glass.

The Key and of prime importance is lite. They are seeking total darkness.

I can tell you this right now, Kingsnakes do not lay eggs naturally where they are exposed to lite. I wonder why? Cheers

outside the box!!!

I remember your posts from last year about this subject Frank. It's part of the reason I'm trying this whole experiment.

I've set up 3 (at first just 2) females in a larger (I call it a double wide) sweater box. The box is still only six inches deep but I've filled it with 4" of sphagnum peat moss. The snakes really seem to like it. All three of them are in the blue but are very active especially at night tunneling through the substrate. They also seem to be enjoying each others company. Most of the time they are completely buried or half buried in the substrate. Others times they are laying around on top partially intertwined with bits of the substrate stuck to their heads and body.

My reptile room is in my sunroom which faces east. The snakes (at this time of year) experience pretty much what a wild herp would experience here in NM @ 5211 ft. Like the box turtles that live in my fenced back yard. I leave some of the windows on both sides of the sunroom open so that temps fluctuate in the room. I do have a heat strip so that if they want heat they can have it if they want it.

I'll post more as things progress. Here's the three girls

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Vichris

Vichris Variables