Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I did a lot of online searching, and found out that there were 3 thayeris hatched last year at Great Valley Serpentarium. They're at a great age, still young and not as expensive as the older ones yet . I choose the one that probably wouldn't make the best breeder, but she's got really unique markings on her head that I thought looked really nice and haven't really seen on a lot of leonis before(there's a pic below). The details with payment and shipping aren't completely worked out yet, but I got really excited and just had to post it. heheh. Thanks for all the help everyone! I'll be sure to keep you all updated (and answering questions). Who knows, maybe I'll be on here with my own breeding stock someday soon.

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No reptiles....yet
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0.3 Cats ='.'=
0.0.1 African Dwarf Frog
1.0.3 Tropical Fish

Hey, nice job! I JUST bought GVS's other female thayeri! Haha, small world. I was excited to find a decent looking thayeri female, I thought I'd be looking a lot longer. I was hoping for an '04, but I couldn't pass her up. Hopefully she'll be big enough to breed with my male next year, but probably not. Ahhh...patience is a virtue. Here she is!

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1.1.0 Leopard Geckos (Booger & Gimp)
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon (Lucutis)
0.0.1 Quince Monitor (Pollux)
1.0.0 Thayeri Kingsnake (Corbin)

Are you sure there is'nt Pyro or Greeri in the genetics of both those snakes. I very well may be wrong. But they don't look right to me. You may want to check again with the breeder. Again I am not an expert and could be wrong. But if I'm right, this is the exact problem with people breeding thayeri with other types of snakes and selling them as pure, whether knowingly or not. Not trying to say anything negative, just don't want you guys to start out on your breeding programs with hybrid animals. It will mess you up big time. Just trying to help. Maybe some other opinions will help. thanks, mike

Yeah, they don't look like full blood thayeri to me. Looks like some alterna or something else in there. Who can say for sure, but I agree they don't look right.

Hmmm.... what signs do you see that make you think they are not pure? I am not doubting your observation, I just want to learn from you experts. The breeder did say she was pure, but like you said, anyone can SAY something is pure.

I'll contact the breeder and see if I can dig up a bit more information on her. Still learning these things!
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1.1.0 Leopard Geckos (Booger & Gimp)
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon (Lucutis)
0.0.1 Quince Monitor (Pollux)
1.0.0 Thayeri Kingsnake (Corbin)

Let me know what the outcome is, all of this has got me curious Hope it goes well for you though. The two males looked very clean-cut and typical of thayeris that I didnt even think twice. I almost got the second male because he did look so nice, but then decided to go for the more different looking female. I'll post the pic of the males too just for kicks.

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*coming on 5/10* 0.1 Thayeri!!!
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0.3 Cats (Cupcake, Smokey, Thelma)
0.0.1 African Dwarf Frog (Kikia)
1.0.3 Tropical Fish

all of those look very much like each other. Same background color, intense black, very simular patterns, not very variable.

Mike B. may be right about those. Have you seen the parent snakes? Why are those still available this late in the season? Do you mind me asking the selling price?
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

The whole general look of all 4 snakes is throwing up a red flag for me. The head pattern is really strange as are the way the reds and blacks in the saddle colors blend. They do look like there is thayeri in them though. I could be wrong, like I said. I would ask breeder for photos of parents.

Mike,
I would have to agree with you.....
I see a strange nuchal pattern on one of these more characteristic of Greeri.....Then one of them, if not all, have solid black bands with little red on the lateral (side) scales. This, to me, looks to be a Pyromelena influence. What is the iris color on these snakes? What are the ventral scale counts? Compare head shapes, nuchal patterns, ventral pattern, band count, etc......
I went through this same thing with my light phased possible Greeri cross....I even started counting scales on shed skins to try and prove them to be 'pure' or 'hybrid'....Dan Vermilya, Robert Hansen and others helped me with all the informational data.......I still am not 100% certain either way, but either way the uncertainty is there.
I don't know much about GVS, but I would ask for some/any background information........
John Lassiter

I thought that too the moment I saw the first one. I did not want to rain on anyone’s parade though and they could be pure. Something just said “run away” to me. Those head patterns do not look like any I have seen, close but not quite. I thought Alterna or Greeri too. But, I do not have any facts that say otherwise, just not right for me. See what happens with Hybrids, it casts doubt on all Thayeri.
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

I would agree they are hybrids. The head pattern of the first one is very strange. I read the hybrid forum alot and have seen that head pattern on many mexicana/alterna/pyro crosses. I don't mean to rain on your parade either but it is better to know now than later.

Wow! Hehehe, I remember the guy from there emailing me originally saying that they had 2.2 thayeris from '05, and then only sending pics of two males and the female the next day. You must've snagged her sister right before I saw them. Congrats to you too, keep us updated I'd love to see more pics

And thanks for your input too, Mike. By looking at them I see what you mean and I can see your concerns. This is going to be my first snake though, so I don't plan on breeding with her she's just going to be a pet. Maybe down the road I will breed, but I'll probably get a separate breeding stock for that.
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No reptiles....yet
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0.3 Cats ='.'=
0.0.1 African Dwarf Frog
1.0.3 Tropical Fish

Ok, good to hear. It's always a good idea to ask for photos of parents before you buy. Wish you all the best. mike

I've never seen one quite like that. Congratulations on a nice find.

She reminds me of this one.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Those are some great contrasting colors, nice find. have fun

Adam
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1.2 THAYERI
1.2 SPLENDIDA (1.0 ALBINO/ 0.2 HYPO)
1.1 CORNS SNAKES (0.1 SNOW/ 1.0 STRIPEDSUNGLOW)
0.1 REDFOOT TORTOISE
1.0 LEOPARD TORTOISE
0.1 PYXIE FROG
0.0.1 HORNED FROG
0.0.1 TADPOLES

Whether this snake is pure thayeri or some kind of cross, I hope she'll be a fun pet for you. From everything I've heard, all of the breeds that may have contributed to her are good snakes to keep. If she's primarily thayeri, she should be a joy. I think I remember you asking about breeds in the general forum, and I'm happy to see that you've found something that will fit you well. You've stoked my interest in these snakes again, and I'll continue watching this forum for word of the little ones hatching this year.

All the best,

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Thanks! Heheh, I had no idea I'd stir up this much talk about hybrids with her. I looked up alterna and greeri (since they seemed to be mentioned a lot) and I do think that my female's head coloring does resemble greeri in many cases, once she sheds I'll take a count (or find out exactly how to, that is) and see if that tells me anything. I haven't seen the parents but I do know that they sold them all for $75 each plus S&H. I only really wondered about them selling males and females for the same price and seperatly instead of in pairs, that was the only thing that struck me.

It worked out perfectly for me because now I don't have to wait until the ones for this year hatch, I get a bigger snake like I wanted with colors that are unique that I really love, and a price that was well within my ideal budget And mutts are always my favorites, I've never had a purebred animal besides my breeder bettas. I do feel bad for the person here that got the sister and intended to breed her, I really hope that goes well. The hybrid thing really intrests me though, I'm curious to find out though. Until then, I guess I'll just call her a thayeri. She's getting here tomorrow before 10:00 am, the cage is all set up and now all I have to do is wait.

Thanks again to everyone that has helped me in getting to this point! You've all been a great help to me and a good resource for all my questions.
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*coming on 5/10* 0.1 Thayeri!!!
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0.3 Cats (Cupcake, Smokey, Thelma)
0.0.1 African Dwarf Frog (Kikia)
1.0.3 Tropical Fish

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with a mutt as a pet. If you were breeding, you might want to keep lines pure for marketing purposes. Again, I'm excited for you. Your preparation for snake ownership has been great, and that responsibility is great to see.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Hey, good luck with her! I get mine tomorrow morning too! I'm really bummed to find out she isn't pure like he said, though. I guess it was too good to be true... lesson learned. I'm unsure now as to whether or not I will breed her, but IF I decide to I'll be sure NOT to label the offspring as pure thayeri. I don't want to deceive anybody.

I've been trying to contact the breeder to get pics of parents, but ever since we closed the deal I haven't heard a peep. Big suprise huh? He has a phone # listed on his signature, so I'll probably call him so I'm not so easy to ignore.
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1.1.0 Leopard Geckos (Booger & Gimp)
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon (Lucutis)
0.0.1 Quince Monitor (Pollux)
1.0.0 Thayeri Kingsnake (Corbin)

Cairbre, I am interested to hear what you get for scale counts on your female. I'll count on mine and share that info if you are interested. Haha... first I have to figure out how! Can anyone point me to a diagram to where on the snake all the terminology is referring to? (Subcaudal, etc.)
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1.1.0 Leopard Geckos (Booger & Gimp)
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon (Lucutis)
0.0.1 Quince Monitor (Pollux)
1.0.0 Thayeri Kingsnake (Corbin)

Thanks, that would be awesome She came today and is doing well, she's a little on the small side but I fell in love with her the second I saw her
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*coming on 5/10* 0.1 Thayeri!!!
0.3 Cats (Cupcake, Smokey, Thelma)
0.0.1 African Dwarf Frog (Kikia)
1.0.3 Tropical Fish