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need some input

rinoa05_1987 May 08, 2006 09:01 AM

hello all,
after two years I finally got my leo to the vet and found out he's one of the healthiest lizards that vet has ever treated, though he does have a very slight over infestation of hookworms.she gives everyone a standard lecture for their first visit and we disscussed some things that I could be doing differently to promote better health and the one thing I wasn't doing that she mentioned was to feed my leo some greens. Her reasoning for suggesting leo's get greens is that there just isn't enough info on nutritional needs of lizards and well in the wild they do get some greens when grabbin ginsects on or near plants. I agree with the logic but my problem is, bubsy doesn't touch anything that doesn't move. I have to take him back for a re-check in two weeks so I plan on talking with her about it more, but for the time being does anyone here feed their leo greens and if so how do you get the to eat it? I figured a good way would be to dab organic baby food onto his nose and letthing him lick it off. now she said not alot of
greens considering they are carnivores so don't get me wrong, he won't be on a high fiber diet, just a little fiber to help keep his system clean and to promote a more natural lifestyle (or as good a one you can get when locked in a synthetic environment). also does anyone here have experience with regular fluorescent UVB vs. compact bulb fluorescent UVB? I need a new UV light because mine is dead and I wanted to know if there was any significant difference between the two, other than price.

*ash

Replies (14)

adamjeffery May 08, 2006 10:06 AM

well the only answer i can give you is that you do not need a uva/uvb at all. leos are nocturnal and do not need a light source what so ever. the only light you need is one for veiwing.
adam

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hybrid breeders association
0.1.0 normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0.0 snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0.0 amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.0.1 snapping turtles
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

Nighthawk_ May 08, 2006 10:33 AM

I've never herd that... I just feed my geckos crickets, mealworms, the occasional wax worm, and soon to be silk worms. All of which I dust with vitamin (can't spell that at the moment) supplament (or that). the only problem I see if calling your gecko bubsy heh jk

mkco79 May 08, 2006 01:27 PM

Heres my take on eating greens! As long as you are gut loading your crix I wouldnt think you need to worry. Keep some greens in with your crix all the time and there going to eat them and also a good source for moisture. The crix will pass along the nutrients to your gecko. Like you said leo's dont bother to much with things that are not moving so if you do try and feed him greens good luck!! lol
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Mike & Wendy

2.0.0 Siberian husky, Jackrussel/schitzu
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.0.1 Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Beardie
4.0.0 Beta's
3.1.0 Future Herper's

rinoa05_1987 May 08, 2006 02:31 PM

In reply to the person who said geckos don't need UVA/B, they do. all living creatures get UVA/UVB each day in different amounts. just because they're nocturnal doesn't mean they don't get doses of it. Other than that, thanks to you three for trying to help, but honestly I'm positive his vet is correct about the greens, so I wasn't asking if she was correct, more if anyone else knows how to make the greens seem attractive to a leo who has spent two years on nothing but crickets and mealworms.

GreggMM May 08, 2006 05:27 PM

"In reply to the person who said geckos don't need UVA/B, they do."

No they do not.... I can not think of any breeder or serious keeper that uses UVB.... They do not need it to process calcium like diurnal reptiles.... Again, leos do not need UVB....

GreggMM May 08, 2006 05:35 PM

"honestly I'm positive his vet is correct about the greens"

The vet is very wrong about the greens.... Leos are strictly carnivorious.... They get exactly what they need from insects.... That is why it is so important to gutload insects before feeding them off.... I can say with 100% confidence that your leo will never eat greens.... If your leo grabs a cricket on a lettus leaf it will spit the leaf out and eat the cricket....
Leos are not built to take in straight plant matter.... Its a biological fact.... Any vet that tells you different obviously has no clue on leopard gecko husbandry....

thesuccubiniche May 08, 2006 06:30 PM

I agree fully that leopards do not need uvb light. The light sometimes will even stress them out. We in this leopard gecko forum exchange information all the time. When someone new comes into this forum we gladly accept them. When you ask a question please listen to everyones response. Please do not say they are wrong because most likely they have been breeding leopards for a while. Oh and your leopard gecko probably came from someone who didn't use uvb light. In other words, don't put down everyone in this forum saying we are wrong when really your the one asking the question. I am really not trying to be rude or start anything but the information they are giving is good information. Also, when it comes to vets, watch out. I took one of my female leopards to a vet because we thought she had crypto. She was getting skinny like she lost about 20 grams and her tail was a pencil. She had a clutch and only laid one. The vet said that geckos could not get egg-bound. Well, lets just say thats the last time we went there. My gecko did actually survive... she laid that other egg two months later. Just saying a lot of vets know nothing about leopards. Some do but many don't. I will state again I am not trying to be rude just passing some useful information.

-phil

rinoa05_1987 May 08, 2006 09:17 PM

A) I just took college biology and in it we disscused the need for all animals, including nocturnal animals, to get UV; and its not some community college with a moron for an instructor.
B) I've been a part of this forum for 2 years so I'm no noob.
C) My leo's vet is highly qualified and just because you breed geckos does not make you an expert
C) I was not putting their replies down and I was not ignoring them. I was simply correcting them on the UV issue because it is very important for leo's to get small doses of UV. if they are in a hide and you have a UV light on, they will get just a little bit which is neccessary for them to be healthy.
D) Lizards diets have NOT been thoroughly researched, therefore she and many other vets suggest giving them a wide variety wich includes little bites of greens once in awhile, not everyday, just once in a great while to add some variety.

so in conclusion, don't go jumping down someones throat unless you know all the information.
oh and unless someone here can be helpful please just don't bother replying. I'm sick of fighting in internet communities over bogus information.

mkco79 May 08, 2006 09:33 PM

Please fill us in on the need for UV!
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Mike & Wendy

2.0.0 Siberian husky, Jackrussel/schitzu
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.0.1 Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Beardie
4.0.0 Beta's
3.1.0 Future Herper's

thesuccubiniche May 08, 2006 11:15 PM

Ok, so you have taken biology in a University. Seeing that you have the date 1987 on your name means that maybe ... probably you are 18 years old. There are breeders in this forum responding to you that have had leopard geckos longer than you have been alive. S0, I wasn't jumping down your throat I was passing along information. No matter how hard you try your leopard geckos will never eat greens. This is why the crickets are gut-loaded. Please obtain a copy of "The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos" by Ron Tremper and Philippe de Vosjoli. This will let you know all the information you need. Once again, leopard geckos will not eat greens no matter how hard you try. By the way when I took Biology at a University, not once did we talk about leopard geckos. You said you have been in this forum for two years. I religiously check this forum every night (guess you could say I'm addicted) and not once have seen your name. I again am sorry if I sound rude but it is the only way to get my point across. UVB/UVA light is not bad for the geckos and it might make them brighter but the fact is they are not needed. Why do you think people with many geckos use racks and have some of the healthiest geckos around? In conclusion, listen to the people that have the most experience in raising leopards. They know what to do.

-phil

GreggMM May 09, 2006 10:55 AM

Wow, someone needs to relax.... I you know everything, why ask questions???

Its very good that you took a bio class, but the text is general and does not pinpoint any spacific species...

I have a dgree in biology specializing in herpetology and entomology.... Does this make me qualified to give bad info??? LOL

Your vet is just a vet... She/he is no expert in leopard gecko husbandry.... Just the fact that she/he is telling you to feed a carnivorious reptile greens, is enough to tell even the most novice keeper that this person has no idea what she/he is talking about when it comes to reptile husbandry....

Someone like my self, who has been keeping and breeding reptiles for 20 years, including leopard geckos, must know something about their captive husbandry, right???

Again, leos do not need UVA/B or greens to live long, healthy lives in captivity.... They get everything they need from gutloaded insect prey and the proper supplementation....

redoaksblues May 08, 2006 07:37 PM

While I mean no disrespect to those that have kept Geckos sucdessfully and bred them, the school of thoughts from vets and from zoos (professors, scientists, etc.)is that UVA and UVB is important to leopard geckos, just not in large amounts. Even though geckos and other nocturnal animals only come out at night, the sun does manage to permeate and give them the small amouunts thsy need. I humbly submit the following for discussion: Below is a quote:

"Lighting: Ultraviolet B is required to maintain healthy leopard geckos. The best source of UVB is the sun, but special bulbs, (fluorescent or mercury vapor) can be purchased from a reptile shop. The flourescent bulb must be placed no more than 12 inches from the basking site, and should be on a timer to provide about 14 hours of daylight and 10 hours of darkness." This is from "Chicago Exotics" An avian exotic animal hospital

Also, the UK has a study:
Variation in skin sensitivity to UVB light.
All living things on the surface of the planet are exposed to ultraviolet light to some extent. Diffused and reflected UVB will penetrate into deep shade and even nocturnal creatures may be exposed to small amounts whilst hidden in their daytime retreats, particularly in locations where daytime UVB levels are high.

It is likely that all reptiles can synthesise vitamin D in their skin when exposed to UVB light. Very few vertebrates do not synthesise its precursor, provitaminD, in the skin.23

Two related studies compared the sensitivity of the skins of four species of lizard - a crepuscular house gecko, a shade-dwelling anole, an anole which basks in sunshine, and the sun-dwelling Texas spiny lizard. The amount of vitamin D3 synthesised by the skin of each of the species was compared. They found that the skin sensitivity was related to the amount of exposure to UVB light the reptiles would normally receive in the wild. The Texas spiny lizard skin was the most insensitive; in a high UVB environment, this thick skin might well be resistant to UV damage and yet still produce sufficient vitamin D3. The house gecko skin was the most sensitive; presumably this gecko would be able to make the most of the smallest amounts of ultraviolet light that came its way.9,16

We have conducted a new study on the way the skin of reptiles from different habitats varies in its transmission of UVB light, by examining the shed skin from a range of species from very different environments. We have found that in general, our findings tie in well with those described above. Lizards which are normally exposed to high levels of UV light have shed skin which lets only a small percentage through to its deeper layers; this barrier would thus presumably have a protective function. Species that would receive lower levels of UVB in their environment have shed skin which lets a higher percentage of UVB light through.
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1.1 Cats -Siamese Emma, Asian Leopard Cat Hau-Li
2.2.Horses - Percheron Girls - Colea and Ivy - Thoroughbred Machine to Tower and my beloved Brilliant Display (Rainbow Bridge)
2.1 Leopard Geckos -Gamarrah, Gabera and Monster Zero
1.0 Miniature Goat - Betty
1.0 Dog - Bess
1.0 African Grey - Molly

WindyO May 09, 2006 03:45 PM

Wow thats funny you posted Chicago exotics as a reference. They are my vet. I take all my geckos to see Susan. She is very knowledgable and always takes great care of all my animals.

( Reminder this is not Susan I am about to talk about.) Unfortunatly the UV response is a text book taught response. They are generalizing all reptiles when they ask that question. There is a women I saw when I was there last that has no business taking care of herps. It became more than obvious that she was going by her premade list of questions. She asked about a UVB and I explained why not and that was the end of the conversasion. She didn't even know how to sex them. She didn't even end up taking care of my problem but did point out that Susan was at a reptile conference and would be back in a week.

Now I agree that it isn't bad and probably may have some positive consiquences. I also agree that it is not a necessity. I have Some that have lights and some that are in racks. I have found no differnce in appetite, color, or health in the two seperate groups. As long as you provide the correct heat, nutrients and a clean cage your gecko will be healthy.
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Brian
www.thewindycitygecko.com

redoaksblues May 09, 2006 03:53 PM

Great response. I could not agree more! Thanx for taking the time to comment!!!
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1.1 Cats -Siamese Emma, Asian Leopard Cat Hau-Li
2.2.Horses - Percheron Girls - Colea and Ivy - Thoroughbred Machine to Tower and my beloved Brilliant Display (Rainbow Bridge)
2.1 Leopard Geckos -Gamarrah, Gabera and Monster Zero
1.0 Miniature Goat - Betty
1.0 Dog - Bess
1.0 African Grey - Molly

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