Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...If so, see my posting in the old BP forum! Even hecklers are welcome to comment! Scott J. Michaels DVM

I'm lazy, don't suppose you could link to it?

Hello meretseger:

I'm not that computer savvy, man, I havn't learned how to link or paste and post yet (next lesson). Just go to the old forum and scroll down. Or don't. SJM

9 years is a loooong time....

but I do not believe in parthnogenesis.....(in snakes)

.....wow...all there is to say...

makes you really wonder again about those thousands of hets and possible hets from all those snakes that were bought as adults....

here...I have had females skip a year of breeding only once....and all were bred many times each year....so I have no info on retention...

(IN cornsnakes I do get alot of second clutches and I can say for a fact that they do not hold sperm usually...at times yes...but usually not for me....((trinkets either ,few times only)))

....good luck....

...............JYReptiles

Hello jyohe:

Thanks for responding.

Parthenogenesis has been confirmed in the Brahminy Blind snake, a Garter snake, a rattlesnake, and Elephant Trunk snake.
Although not snakes, certian species of whiptail lizards of the american southwest have no males in the population, reproducing ONLY by parthenogenesis. SJM

You still have to wonder about the "confirmed" virgin births....

I always wonder who is in the cages after hours at like zoos or stores or whatever....I still really don't believe it...

lizards ,,yes I know about the all female species...and that all aphids are born female and pregnant with females....LOL...funny...(amazon bugs)....

anyways....

till it happens here...I say...they should prove it...

as for 9 years...wow again....I think 1 ,,2 ,,or 3 years is not too absurd...but 9 ....wow...../////....that is a record....

......JYReptiles

Has anyone heard if that Burmese Python in Amsterdam laid any good eggs again this year and if they are finally going to try to hatch some? I guess there was some zoo policy against letting the snakes reproduce so they took the eggs away from her and didn't hatch them in past years. Seems to me that if they got a few live hatchlings they could make a better case for self cloning. Plus it would be interesting to see if they do it also.

As far as retention in ball pythons, I think we are mainly hoping it doesn’t happen regularly. Of course you could occasionally stumble on a good surprise but best if everything is straightforward and this year’s male can be counted on to be the father. I suppose if it does happen with any regularity we should start hearing about it soon with all the hets out there.

Hello Randy:
Thanks for responding (and everyone else, even the lol's).

I know only about what was said in the Reptiles' blurb, which wasn't much. Nothing about whether snakes hatched, or if dead embryos had to be scooped out of eggs. Technically, all offspring are females in parthenogenesis, and sexual differentiation occurs fairly late in embryogenesis. If anyone knows more about this Burm case I would like to hear.

As far as sperm retention goes, yes it would complicate matters substantially in today's morph market. Let's say you breed an albino female to a het albino male, and next year you breed her to a het genetic stripe BUT get an albino in the clutch? Well that would prove sperm retention of a year's duration. But breeding het to het would make things more interesting! However, I think multiple fresh matings would greatly decrease the chance of old sperm having a significant impact on the fresh matings. Time may tell. SJM

If I recall, the zoo was claiming it to be a case of parthogenisis, not sperm storage, because if I recall correctly all the offspring were identical (to mom). Also, that female (again, if I recall correctly) had not been with a mail in 5 years...as they said in Jurassic Park...Life finds a way!

Hi Christy:

Thanks for writing in.

The article in REPTILES didn't say anything about offspring produced OR that it had been with a male 5 years' previous. If it HAD been with a male even once, even 5 year ago, they could NOT claim parthenogenesis. In my BP, since it had been with another BP 9 years' previous, there is a small % chance that it was sperm storage. Either way it's pretty remarkable! SJM

I haven't seen the Reptiles article, just a couple on the net. This one details the genetic tests done. I'm no expert but I'm just wondering if it's possible that they got some of the mother's material from the egg some how. I recently read how many humans still carry some of their mother’s cells and vice versa. It just seems like if they can hatch the babies and grow them up they could keep testing and remove all doubt.
Case for Parthenogenesis in Amsterdam Burm

Hi Randy:
REALLY appreciate that link. I only just read the abstract and can't wait to read the whole article. Need to get more ink in my printer! I guess more people in the right places need to hear about my case. Thanks again, and always remember.............Ball Pythons RULE! SJM

I know many sperm storage receptacles but none are snakes. Sorry, Someone had to go there. Please disregard anything I have to say.

Its great to see you back Scott!
web site

-----
Mark Kennedy Reptiles

Hey thanks Mark, it's great to BE back! WOW your web site is nice-I hope to have one half as nice when I grow up! I have het albino BP eggs (albino x normal) incubating, with at least one more clutch on the way, and a gravid het butterscotch ghost bred to a visual butterscotch male, as well as my beloved AZ mtn kings and knobs. I'm completely out of boas but probably will get back into a FEW when the time's right. I want to keep it fun again and BP's are much easier to deal with than the bigger snakes. SJM

I'd be most interested in hearing comments from you guys, the leaders in BP herpetoculture! SJM

....Hey Tracy, wake up Dave and tell him to read my post in the old BP forum!!! SJM