Reptile & Amphibian Forums

granted the law makers messed up and didn't put it on the agenda this year, but next year I promise they won't make the same mistake. For any reptile keeper to support this bill as it's written is dumb. Any species could be listed as a species of concern. That emori rat that you own could compete with native corns so it's gotta be banned. That bearded dragon could compete with the gopher torts and there would be no more grasses to graze on. Granted these 2 examples are extreme but that's what law makers do to get votes from the majority. Chipping the snakes is a great idea, making a $100 yearly permit for a collection of 1-20 snakes is a great idea, requiring 1000 hours experience to own is just dumb. Everyone that lives in florida that keeps snakes knows 2 people that would sign off on a permit for venomous and that would be the same for this bill. This bill would just cause more corruption and paper work that would take away funds to help the everglades and officers to enforce the laws that are already in place. This is my 2 cents and i think that it would work to stop illegal releases to a point. What we must do is fight this battle publicly by using facts about snakes not pigs or dogs, people like dogs they don't like snakes.
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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.0 Spider Ball python (Ballroom pythons south)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
1.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
0.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Some good points, but I heartly disagree on the money vs training thing.

As stated below, I see rank beginners throw away $500 plus to get a Chrondo or scads more for the latest color morph of their latest fancy. Money alone will not solve this situation.

As for signing off. I have trained a few people for Hots and I don't just sign off. That person has to demonstrate to me that they are competent before I write a recomendation. Having to supply documentation is a lot harder than dealing out that extra hundred. I understand that some might not be as strict as I am. But then this is the basic difference between responsible keepers and the ones that are the problem.

I just did an interview for NEW TIMES and talked with the reporter who did the story for the Sun-sentinel listed below. We are dealing with one state rep who hates snakes and is determined to force his prejudice on the entire state. He will be defeated as the reptile industry provides too many tax dollars to the state.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I don't agree with your "rank beginner" argument. That just lacks respect and due recognition for ones' individual abilities and levels of responsibility. After all, I was at one time, a "rank beginner. Dave Barker was once a "rank beginner". Carmichael was also once a "rank beginner". As was every single person in this forum. We all must start out at the very bottom and work our way up. We didn't go to "python husbandry 101" at Harvard to learn what we now know and practice daily. You can't gleen true experience from a class. You learn only by actual, hand's on experience. We learned by beginning at the bottom and working our way up. One one does not have to start with a cornsnake to do it. One just need be dedicated and responsible.

So to put down someone because it is their first snake is not appropriate or right or acurate. Many people that drop a lot of money on a morph for a first snake or start with a snake that may top 20 feet in 10 years are fully capable of learning to properly care for that snake and growing with it (or them) in terms of their ability to provide overly adequate husbandry in an environment based on professionalism and safety.

I would suggest that you not stereotype the "rank beginners" present that are fully dedicated to their snakes and to this hobby and would never be dumping off their burmese in the Everglades. They deserve respect too.
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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com

Know one here agrees with what you just said more then i do. To many times i have seen someone bashed on for getting a Burm, Retic or a Rock as there first herp. I believe that as your herp grows, your experience grows with it. Several years ago i started with a Burm and have not had a problem sense. However i do believe that some people have a lack of respect for them and those are the beginners who make the rest look bad.
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0.1 Normal Burm ( Stewie )
1.1 Albino Granite Burm ( Dollar and Cents )
1.0 Super Tiger 100% Het Albino ( Blue )
0.1 Purple Albino Retic ( Puzzle )
0.2 Kids ( Kaylee and Angie )
0.1 Wife ( Danielle )

I also Agree 100%. People always want to recommend this or that for ones first herp. Well if the person doesn't like nor want that herp what happens to it once they are ready to move up? Within Reason get what you want, you will be happy and as said above you can grow with the animal.

As for all this crap about this bill. You can still keep whatever you want. You pay $100 for the permit. I'd much rather have a permit system in place because then there is never a threat of a ban.
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John Light
JL Exotics
Contact Me
Web Site

David,

you are totally in left field. Where did I say a "rank beginner" can't buy the snake of his choice? Try reading what I said. It was not disrespectful.

I was a rank beginner too-some 35 years ago.

My point again David, was that money (as in permit fees) alone will not stop a bad keeper if he really wants to buy something.

Also, I condemn dealers who will do anything for a sale. I see too much of this at shows here.

How you contrive this as an attack on beginers is beyond me.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I don't agree with the bill either, but you'll have better luck convincing people if you actually know what's in it. It's gone through several versions in the House and Senate, but none of them extend the 1000 hours or the reference requirements to nonvenomous, only the fee, tanspotation, housing and inspection requirements and the latest house version removes the transport part. Check it out:

www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=33692&
www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Year=2006&billnum=990

The hours and references are part of FWC regulations, not state law, and the proposed bill does not change that.

My whole objection from the onset was the simple fact that no further legislation or laws are necessary. And the introduction of these proposed bills are nothing more then one guy trying to gain public support for his own political and personal interest. Look I saved the Everglades and the people of Florida from the monster snakes. Vote for me. With no real concern for anyone or anything else.

The introduction of proposed NEW legislation by State Rep. Ralph Poppell with the full support of Peta and Hsus was initially to provide a State wide ban against the keeping of ALL non native wildlife.This was / is his goal. There is no way these radical activist groups would offer their support to anyone who was truly looking for a sensible solution to the keeping of Exotic wildlife.What he is telling them is not what he was saying to us this past December.

Naturally this could not be supported by FWC who if this total ban were to take place would loose a substantial amount of revenue as well as other complications .So it was watered down to it`s current incarnation that still has many loopholes that could be used to further restrict and penalize the many QUALTIY keepers ,breeders, and businesses here in Florida and allow this guy to move forward in the direction of his original goal. All done with out any impute from private keepers , members of the industry or even the general public for that matter.

The current permitting system in Florida only needs to be modified to include large constrictors under the Class III for personal use category.The guild lines for this permit are already in place and cover the major issues being discussed. Currently this is a free permit. I feel with slight modifications to the existing class III permit FWC with the impute of the industry can provide a system that will be fair and as effective as any permitting system can be while keeping the issue in house. Ernie Eison