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I am going to make an arboreal cage for tree monitors and was anxious to try some plastics this time around instead of the usual wood or metal.

From googling and searching the forum here I found out about sintra expanded pvc. Although I am not sure if this is going to be suitable for my application.

Id need somehting that can hold humidity and can toelrate moisture. from reading some sintra info it says its for indoor signs only, which makes me wonder if its capable of withstanding daily misting.

also I have concerns of the strength. my cage will be approximately 4' long 5 ' tall and 3' deep. So I gotta wonder if this stuff is going to be strong enough to support itself.
and thirdly I am curious if anyone knows if the pvc could possibly be harmful for its inhabitants. I have heard that pvc fumes can do DNA damage, but I dont know if heat lighting is strong enough to cause pvc to release fumes.

any input would be greatly appreciated

tom

I don't have any experience building a cage that large with Sintra or any other brand of expanded PVC. I do have some experience with it, however. One of the regular posters on this forum will be very helpful with the larger cage construction.

I have no doubt it would be able to withstand the daily mistings. The only reason it's rated for indoor use only is because it is not extremely UV resistant, which won't be a concern even with the most powerful mercury vapor bulb. I'd be more concerned with its ability to withstand scratching, depending on the species of tree monitor.

Celtec 550 is one expanded PVC product that is rated for incidental food contact, suggesting it is somewhat safe. It is also one of the lightest PVC sheet products if not the lightest. But I'm sure at least part of your cage will be quite warm for a tree monitor so that may affect things, I don't know.

Back to the size of your cage, will you be able to fit that through doors, around corners, etc? The walkout basement of my home was built to be handicap accessible and I could not fit a cage that size into anywhere but two large entry rooms in my house.

Also, I want to warn you that if you go with a thicker expanded PVC product due to the size of your cage that you may very well end up with a heavy cage. Many people buy 1/2" expanded PVC since it's easier to work with and stronger and are surprised to find out it often weighs more than 1/2" plywood.

Just to give you an example, the 1/2" Celtec 550 I have out in the garage weighs 43 lbs. per sheet, or 1.35 lbs. per square foot. And it's the lightest 1/2" sheet material I could find.

1/2" baltic birch plywood is 1.72 lbs. per square foot and that's about the heaviest plywood you can find. So a 4x8 sheet of it would weigh 55 lbs.

Some 1/2" expanded PVC products weigh over 70 lbs and some 1/2" plywood weighs less than 50 lbs. So be careful if weight is important. Or figure out a way to use 1/4" material.

I think expanded PVC is a great material for cage construction but it does have its limitations. If I absolutely needed a cage that size I would build it from those aluminum tubing connectors and use a 1/4" plastic material. That way the cage could be taken apart once a silicone seal was scraped away.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

thanks for the information thats very helpful.

its been years since I have made a lizard cage. I have made a dozen or so in the past using plywood/plexiglass and [bleep] tons of various paints and sealants that were more trouble than they were worth, as well as outdoor 'walk in' style cages with 2 x 4's and metal grate.

i had a few indoor cages that were 6' long x 5' tall x 2' deep and took 2 people to move(and the other person still complained it was too heavy). I couldnt imagine the expanded pvc nearing that weight.

since those days I became a tig welder and fabricator so theres a ton of different ways I could implement that into cage building. however I feel uneasy using aluminum inside a cage thats going to have a high humidity.
After abeing around aluminum so much and learning what it does to the human body over time (welding fumes and aluminum dust itself) id hate to cause any damage to the nervous system of a long lifespan reptile such as a monitor.

AS far as fitting it in the house and thru doors and such, its going to be a take-down design. I dont imagine expanded pvc takes to well to wood screws so I figure one should treat it like particle board or presswood utilizing a cam lock system or edgeing everything with 1" extruded aluminum angle that it can all be bolted together.

where do you suggest procurement of the celtec 550?

thanks again

That's interesting about aluminum. Why do you suppose it's so popular in kennels, bird aviaries, etc?

I got my Celtec 550 from Port Plastics - easy to find on google. They have several locations around the US. The nearest one to me is a 6 hour drive so I had to have it shipped.

Keep us posted on your cage plans.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

well raw aluminum is constantly oxidizing as long as oxgen is hitting its surface. and that oxidation is harmful as well. there are links to aluminum exposure and parkinsons, alzheimmers, as well as arterial sclerosis.

if the aluminm is coated or anodized then that may suffice, but otherwise it is hazardous. Seeing as how monitors smell withg their tongues I dont want them liking aluminum in a high humidity environment.
In the end I may very well use aluminum or steel 1" square tube as a frame and just paint the stuff .

thanks

tom

Sintra even 1/2" thick wouldnt be the material you wanna use for something that size. Taking into account i would imagine the inside would have a earth substrate and plant life correct ? Along with trees / limbs for climbing. Now im not up much on monitors esp tree species , but if there like other landing roaming and dig the sintra definately isnt the material for it if they get any size and any digging abilities.

With a cage those dimensions i would opt to Build a wood framed and tempered glass enclosure. For the amount of a good HD plastic to build a cage that size and to withstand weight of substartes/inhabitants of a monitor lizard ( again if these are typical of others like niles/ argus etc)You can come out about the same get 5xs the viewing and the humidity and ability to get a much hotter basking area for them and better suited for substartes of earthen natures.

below should be a picture of a cage i built for my partners store. It has housed many a reptiles in the past 4-5 yrs or so since it was built. Its built with Baltic Birch frame then stained with a light cherry stain. The inside & out is coated with a rubberized clear coat ( name slips my mind now been some yrs ) I joined all the sides with kreg pocket scrws so it can be assembled & dissasembled to move it if needed (however they have slid it around the store more then a dozen times without breaking it down and its still fine lol ) After joining the frame i then inserted the glass ( taken from old sliding deck doors in a remodel i was doing ) so the cage has i think 96sf of viewable glass are. the doors are on roller tracks and can be slid with one finger ( the doors are 3ftx5ft ) this has mainly been used for Argus monitors , a few large birms , jungle carpets , boas , frilled dragons etc etc and is still a showpeice in the store.

I would estimate with the proper plastic to build that cage as you want i wouldnt go with less then hdpp and 1/2" thick its heavy but its durable and cn withstand the digging. but a overall cost for a cage that size would be $500 in 1/2 plastic alone unless you get a great deal on it last i used it was 2 yrs ago and cost was upto $110 a sheet for a 5x8 sheet. if you are doing 3ft deep theres 4 pcs plus the back so could easily be $500 in materials not counting doors etc etc .

I built the cage pictured for a total cost of around $50 in wood and glass was free due to remodel but you can find slding doors tha tcan be seperated and use that glass andmake a showpeice cage ... for less then a plastic one that size to be as nice on the eye

ok its late im rambling while hoping for a boa to have me some babies ....

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Builder of Professional Reptile Enclosures ,Plastic caging , Standard & Professional Breeder Rack Systems
junglehabitatsplastics.com/

Alan,

Good timing. I was looking for a picture of that cage to show my wife who wants something like that to display her orchids.

My question is how do you deal with wood movement? Is the glass a bit undersized so that the wood does not shrink down and crack it?
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

Hey chris ,

on that cage what i did was use "mirror" clips dipped into "tool dip" to coat the metal brackets to not chip the glass. The cage is about 1" widerthen the glass both ways this allows the clips to be screwed into the insides ofthe corners. This leaves about 3/4" in the corners thats open. so it basically is like hanging a wall mirror they way its mounted to the cage. if ya have more questions just let me know
Alan
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Builder of Professional Reptile Enclosures ,Plastic caging , Standard & Professional Breeder Rack Systems
junglehabitatsplastics.com/

Thanks, I thought you had done something like that.

The display for my wife's orchids will need to be able to withstand quite a bit of direct moisture and we were hoping to basically make it aquarium tight on the inside. I have a couple of ideas that I'll have to think about.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

her chris

you have a planer right ?

if so heres a thought that would enable you to make it a water proof setup.

Get a sheet of 1/4 plexi , rip you down some 2" wide strips to install in the corners as a 45 degree angle , then set the planer on a 45 angle and run both edges over the planer making a miter on them . Silicone them into the corners and this would seal off the inside corners of the cage forming a water tight seal to the glass . , You could also coverthe floor of the setup with it to to allow water to set on the floor without causing issues for ya .
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Builder of Professional Reptile Enclosures ,Plastic caging , Standard & Professional Breeder Rack Systems
junglehabitatsplastics.com/

I don't have a planer right now but could do the same on my table saw or with a router.

Another thing I thought about was making the side frames from plywood with rectangles cut out. If the sides and back panel were plywood wood movement would be so minimal that I could just build the equivalent of a tank right inside of the carcass, probably using Lexan. I could just keep milling off small amounts until each panel fit perfectly and then solvent weld the corners.

Edge banding the inside corners of the plywood might be tough. I'd probably be better off to make the frames from cut piece of ply and then edge band before assembly.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I managed to get my hands on some 1/4" sintra at a local sign shop and I cant imagine it being much better at 1/2" not to mention pricewise they quoted me $160 for a 4 x 8 too :eek:.
I am planning on 2-3 yearling monitors. a roughneck and possibly some other tree monitors.

My application is somewhat unique in that the entire cage is going to fit in an existing wall cavity. So only the front face will be viewable , so that front face is really the only
side that has to be glass or plexi.

I was kinda kicking around making a steel exoskeleton with 1" square tubing and rigging up a pull pin setup. so it would break down into 5 pieces.

That would give me all the strength I could need. I could then sheet the interior with anything I wanted and get by with an 1/8" thickness (plexi, pvc , lexan , plywood or melamine.)

The wood I am abit leary about becaused I dont really want to use paints or wood sealants on the insides to keep the humidity out. so I am leaning towards the plexi, though my only reserve on the plexi is the noise level of monitors banging up against plexi all day.

here are some pics of the area the cage will be going.

in regards to 1/8" materials even on skeleton might not be enough , i would go with 1/4" min then.

With the space you have there to put the cage in i would look at building the cage w/ plywood. then use 1/8" pvc to cover the inside , this would allow a strong box and have the pvc inside to meet your humidity needs.

with the price of 160 i imagine that was 1/2" pvcx? and prob black?

The biggest thing i see being a issue is if the monitors are diggers then i would be leary of using PVC due to the fact the inner core being foamed may cause issues with the claws of a monitor digging on it .
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Builder of Professional Reptile Enclosures ,Plastic caging , Standard & Professional Breeder Rack Systems
junglehabitatsplastics.com/

I built an Iguana cage into a space very similar to that many years ago.

Since you already have a supportive structure you might just consider (very carefully) cutting some sheet material to fit the space. The friend I built the cage for wanted white shower board, you'd probably want something more durable. Maybe FRP or thin HDPE.

I just tacked the material in place with small nails or staples and then sealed the corners with white polyurethane based caulk.

Then you only need to come up with a face. Personally I'd use something like a wooden face frame similar to what Alan showed in his post. Just seal the back with scrap leftover from whatever you use on the walls.

I just don't see any need to build a modular cage. What are the chances of having the exact shaped niche at your next home? I would keep it cheap and simple.

When my friend moved we were able to take the cage down in about 20 minutes and were not able to tell it was there.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

if you are worried about the monitors scratching check out this material. it is about 80-112$ for a .25" 4x8 sheet it is corrugated plastic skinned with aluminum. although it would probably only work if you used it in your steel frame idea.

http://nudo.com/nudosign/Alumacorr/alumacorr.htm
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scaledhabitats.com

Website updated!

In this useage I would definately not use the alumacore products esp wth a monitor, reason being Aluminum will also scratch and this could lead to digestion of aluminum which could be leathal to the monitor. The aluminum will scratch off like anything else and would be a serious issue for me .
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Builder of Professional Reptile Enclosures ,Plastic caging , Standard & Professional Breeder Rack Systems
junglehabitatsplastics.com/

i had not kept monitors before, and didnt realize thier claws could do that much damage. when you say scratch off, how much are you thinking? like deep gouges, or miniscule scratches? i was thinking about making some cages out of this a few months ago, but decided against it, i suppose this would be another reason not to. the durability sure did appeal to me though.

i wonder how much aluminum would be considered "safe". i know there is aluminum in a lot of the products we use, like anti-perspirant, some multi-vitamins, etc. this is probably a nominal amount though. never the less i wouldnt want my animals ingesting any at all.

if thier scratching is that dramatic, i would definately not use pvc.

the tree monitors guy, bob i think?, uses cork board on the walls for his monitors, i think this is a fantastic idea
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scaledhabitats.com

Website updated!