Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OF COURSE THEY DO,CAME HOME TODAY AND FOUND THEM SLEEPING IN THE WATER.AND NO THE CAGE IS NOT TO HOT.THANKS FOR LOOKING ED

so long as its not too dry

The terms, like or love, or dislikes or hate, are not really accurate when applied to these animals.

Ackies are desert(xeric) reptiles, water is not part of their life(other then to drink). Their prey does not occur around water. They do not hunt in the water. They actually avoid water. They are not niles or mertens or salvators or argus monitors, which do hunt and feed and use water.

But like for all of us, water is necessary to keep them alive. They understand they can use water to cool off, when too hot. They understand they avoid dehydration by sitting in water. Its a necessity.

If a captive ackie is sitting in water, it does so for a reason/s, the substrates too dry/too much air movement, or its too hot. Other then that, they have no use for water.

In my opinion, your ackies are telling you something, so put your ear very close to them and listen.

You see this with other monitors as well, such as savs. Another non water inhabiting monitor. You see captives soaking in water bowls all the time. They too should not have a need or want to soak. but its not the end of the world either. Its only language, monitor language. Anyway, its something to think about. Cheers

I am no monitor or ackie expert. I do know, however, that most animals will take advantage of things such as fat-rich foods, water, ect.
I don't think that ackies have some dislike of water. I think it is more likely that they just don't thrive or even survive in wild habitats where water can exist in puddles for any significant amount of time.
I think it is entirely possible that these animals were just taking advantage of some water put in their cage.
This would serve them well in the wild where things are feast and famine, draught and flood.
Dogs don't eat biscuits in the wild.
I am not saying that the ackies bathing in water means for sure that the climate is fine. I am only saying that it by its sefl is not likely a clear indication that the climate is bothering them.
Based on what I understand about ackies, the water may not be a good thing to keep in the cage for long periods of time because it its self could potentially create a climate that is unsuitable for ackies.
I would be interested in hearing what ackies in an ideal climate do when offered water. If any of you try this, please tell me the results.

Hi Matt, there are two seperate areas of concern.

First, I was the first to breed red ackies, that is only important as it relates to time. I believe that was in 94 give a take a year. I have kept them since a year before that. So thats a little bit of time.

During that time if I find ackies in the water, it always means one of two things, the cage is too dry or its two hot.

In the above, it is nothing about theory of what they would or could do in nature or by nature. Its simple signs that something is amiss in CAPTIVITY.

Second, where they occur naturally is sandy, as in very sandy. Sand dunes or sandy plains, these types of areas do not hold puddles. So over their range, after a rain, maybe 1% would have exposure to puddles.

Couple that with how it rains were they occur, Most commonly(rain is not common) cyclones hit the area or nearby, causing massive flooding.

If you put ackies in water, they do not swim worth a darn, they normally wiggle and puff up full of air. Thats a desert reptile method of survival, to float and hope to find something to cling to.

So instintually, they avoid water. It means danger.

But that is not really what we are talking about is it? We are talking about a little dinky water bowl. Which means to me, its possibly one of the above two husbandry potential problems.

Remember our job as keepers is to "monitor" the varanids. To look for behaviors or changes that indicate we need to add or adjust something. I say all the time, I hate caresheets, because keeping monitors is more about adjusting not setting up and leaving as is.

The responsibility for me is, to mention it could be a problem. Notice I said mention. I also said it could be. Not it is. My hope is to make that keeper aware. What happens after that is not my problem, its that keepers problem or not.

As a young man, I worked at an eletrical manifacturing company, Anaconda Elec. Yes, I applied there only because of the name. I worked in the parts depart. One day they asked if I would help them take down some scaffoling. While taking some down to move it to another place, I saw a support bar dangling above, then I noticed the boss working below it. Well the bar fell and lumped the bosses head. As dumb as I was, I mentioned to the boss that I saw that bar dangling up there. He gave me a look and said, SO WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME. What a great boss, he taught me a lesson, you really can prevent problems. Cheers

You said -"In the above, it is nothing about theory of what they would or could do in nature or by nature. Its simple signs that something is amiss in CAPTIVITY."- in responce to my post and how I talked about their relationship with water in the wild. But I only talked about their relationship with water in the wild in responce to -"Ackies are desert(xeric) reptiles, water is not part of their life(other then to drink). Their prey does not occur around water. They do not hunt in the water. They actually avoid water. They are not niles or mertens or salvators or argus monitors, which do hunt and feed and use water."- Sorry to bring that up, but it felt like you were trying to talk around what I said and bring meanings to it other than my stated intentions and it seemed hostile and uncalledfor. There was certainly no reason to capitalize the captivity as if you were yelling it at me. I mentioned their wild behavior because you brought up their wild habitat and because they are wild animals. They have the same instincts as wild animals even in captivity so the way wild animals act is relavent.
-"If you put ackies in water, they do not swim worth a darn, they normally wiggle and puff up full of air. Thats a desert reptile method of survival, to float and hope to find something to cling to. So instintually, they avoid water. It means danger. But that is not really what we are talking about is it? We are talking about a little dinky water bowl. Which means to me, its possibly one of the above two husbandry potential problems."- I am not talking about a raging river here. The bowl they were sitting in was far to small for them even to float in. If theye were afraid of that much water, they wouldn't survive. You even say in that quote however that that is not what we are talking about. You were right about that. So you brought up a useless point as if it had relavence to try to downtalk me. Also, you said this right after saying "CAPTIVITY".
-"Remember our job as keepers is to "monitor" the varanids. To look for behaviors or changes that indicate we need to add or adjust something. I say all the time, I hate caresheets, because keeping monitors is more about adjusting not setting up and leaving as is. The responsibility for me is, to mention it could be a problem. Notice I said mention. I also said it could be. Not it is. My hope is to make that keeper aware. What happens after that is not my problem, its that keepers problem or not."- I know it is our job to monitor them and allow them to thrive. I know that you mentioned it to be helpfull. I only mentioned that I disagreed to be helpfull. You see, I have seen plenty of wild animals and plenty of captive animals. I've noticed that wild animals almost always take advantage of food. I have seen more racoons than I can count digging through trash. I was only making the point that their doesnt necesarrily have to be something wrong, not that there deffinately isn't. This way, If the person measures the humidity and temperature and everything turns out fine, they won't need to build a whole new setup.
I think we should treat people who tell their opinions and experiences on this forum a little nicer. Maybe less subtle implications that they are idiots, condescending dialect, and especially, no pointless paragraphs that go on and on about a topic that isn't even relavent.
That last paragraph in your last post was completely just a shot at me. I never said anything to get a paragraph about why you should talk. You wrote more than a paragraph about why it is that you spoke. As if I even implied that you should not speak. That is completely rediculous. I only gave my opinion as well. You were just defending yourself against implications that I didn't make to try to make me look unreasonable.

"The terms, like or love, or dislikes or hate, are not really accurate when applied to these animals.

Ackies are desert(xeric) reptiles, water is not part of their life(other then to drink). Their prey does not occur around water. They do not hunt in the water. They actually avoid water. They are not niles or mertens or salvators or argus monitors, which do hunt and feed and use water.

But like for all of us, water is necessary to keep them alive. They understand they can use water to cool off, when too hot. They understand they avoid dehydration by sitting in water. Its a necessity.

If a captive ackie is sitting in water, it does so for a reason/s, the substrates too dry/too much air movement, or its too hot. Other then that, they have no use for water.

In my opinion, your ackies are telling you something, so put your ear very close to them and listen.

You see this with other monitors as well, such as savs. Another non water inhabiting monitor. You see captives soaking in water bowls all the time. They too should not have a need or want to soak. but its not the end of the world either. Its only language, monitor language. Anyway, its something to think about. Cheers"

"I am no monitor or ackie expert. I do know, however, that most animals will take advantage of things such as fat-rich foods, water, ect.
I don't think that ackies have some dislike of water. I think it is more likely that they just don't thrive or even survive in wild habitats where water can exist in puddles for any significant amount of time.
I think it is entirely possible that these animals were just taking advantage of some water put in their cage.
This would serve them well in the wild where things are feast and famine, draught and flood.
Dogs don't eat biscuits in the wild.
I am not saying that the ackies bathing in water means for sure that the climate is fine. I am only saying that it by its sefl is not likely a clear indication that the climate is bothering them.
Based on what I understand about ackies, the water may not be a good thing to keep in the cage for long periods of time because it its self could potentially create a climate that is unsuitable for ackies.
I would be interested in hearing what ackies in an ideal climate do when offered water. If any of you try this, please tell me the results."

"Hi Matt, there are two seperate areas of concern.

First, I was the first to breed red ackies, that is only important as it relates to time. I believe that was in 94 give a take a year. I have kept them since a year before that. So thats a little bit of time.

During that time if I find ackies in the water, it always means one of two things, the cage is too dry or its two hot.

In the above, it is nothing about theory of what they would or could do in nature or by nature. Its simple signs that something is amiss in CAPTIVITY.

Second, where they occur naturally is sandy, as in very sandy. Sand dunes or sandy plains, these types of areas do not hold puddles. So over their range, after a rain, maybe 1% would have exposure to puddles.

Couple that with how it rains were they occur, Most commonly(rain is not common) cyclones hit the area or nearby, causing massive flooding.

If you put ackies in water, they do not swim worth a darn, they normally wiggle and puff up full of air. Thats a desert reptile method of survival, to float and hope to find something to cling to.

So instintually, they avoid water. It means danger.

But that is not really what we are talking about is it? We are talking about a little dinky water bowl. Which means to me, its possibly one of the above two husbandry potential problems.

Remember our job as keepers is to "monitor" the varanids. To look for behaviors or changes that indicate we need to add or adjust something. I say all the time, I hate caresheets, because keeping monitors is more about adjusting not setting up and leaving as is.

The responsibility for me is, to mention it could be a problem. Notice I said mention. I also said it could be. Not it is. My hope is to make that keeper aware. What happens after that is not my problem, its that keepers problem or not.

As a young man, I worked at an eletrical manifacturing company, Anaconda Elec. Yes, I applied there only because of the name. I worked in the parts depart. One day they asked if I would help them take down some scaffoling. While taking some down to move it to another place, I saw a support bar dangling above, then I noticed the boss working below it. Well the bar fell and lumped the bosses head. As dumb as I was, I mentioned to the boss that I saw that bar dangling up there. He gave me a look and said, SO WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME. What a great boss, he taught me a lesson, you really can prevent problems. Cheers"

You can go, on an on, about possibilities, what do you really think your possibilities are of more actual help then actual realtime experience? IF you say yes, your really telling everyone your real intend(to argue). If you say no, you lose this discussion. hahahahahahaha Check mate.

I don't need to say yes or no because that is not the descussion. I never began saying that people should or should not use UV lights. I only said that you should not start a thread for the purpose of telling someone else that their choice to use UV lights was wrong. Like you say, there is more that one right way. So when you began a thread to tell thebiologist a bunch of stuff about why he shouldn't use UV lights, I chimed in.